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One alternative I've used with some success is to have the player author the inciting incident for their PC. Details here: Repost- first session of Dark Sun campaign

My understanding - from AD&D books - is that they fly in virtue of magical pearls in their brains. Wikipedia tells me that mythology is slightly different: Chinese dragon - Wikipedia

See, I don't see how this is an improvement. What if I want my Castellan to be (say) Sir Lionel?

I don't think the design of the Caves of Chaos is random (despite the name!). But obviously it's not naturalistic. I also don't see why a dungeon needs to be plausible. White Plume Mountain isn't plausible. Not all RPGing has to be about imagining some plausible or naturalistic setting. And if...

I'm thinking of the very many map-and-key based modules/scenarios that I have read and played, mostly published by TSR but some published by WotC and quite a few by ICE. I can't think of any rulebook that fully spells out how they work - though the OD&D rules, and parts of Gygax's DMG and...

That wasn't clear to me. Particularly because you seem to be making claims about fictional weight/heft. Eg: I don't really know that the "possibility space" is that you are referring to. Nor how it shows that fictional position matters more. Where, in the examples I've posted, is fictional...

There can be all sorts of reasons that received opinion departs from how things actually work. If that were the case in discussions of RPGing, it would hardly be unique! In any event, the remark is an observation that I have made. Perhaps you disagree, in which case you should be well-placed to...

A skill challenge is one way of establishing latent scenes/situations, and then activating/triggering them, and progressing from one to the next. And it is an alternative to map-and-key. It is "localised", in that nothing in the skill challenge mechanic tells us how to progress from one to the...

How is it pedantic to point out that what you said about the OP is incorrect? The thread isn't about classifying anyone's play. It's about alternatives to map and key for handling scenes/situations - how the latent ones are established, how they are activated/triggered in play, how play...

The impact of a given success on a future action in a skill challenge is not confined to a +2. Obviously it can radically change the fictional circumstance. I posted some examples of actual play. You haven't explained how fictional positioning would have mattered more if these had been resolved...

Not really. It doesn't say anything about how latent scenes/situations are established, nor how the progression of scenes/situations is actually generated and handled in play.

In this example: Wasn't the fiction "moulded" to follow the mechanics? I mean, it seems rife but. Didn't the amazing success with the needle depend upon mechanics? Likewise the initial failure to pick the out-of-reach locking mechanism and the subsequent success at picking the locking...

Here is the OP's first line: It says nothing about most play. Nor does it say anything about most anything. It says something about a lot of thinking and discussion about the play of RPGs.

No one is obliging you to participate in this thread!

I thought the objection to skill challenges was that it's not possible to go faster or slower. Now the objection seems to be that skill challenges let a player move fast? And if your PC is good at Hunting, why would that be more salient to you in a skill challenge framework than some other...

How is this relevant to the thread topic? Are you interested in talking about alternatives to map-and-key as a way for establishing latent situations, and progressing scenes/situations.

Here are some examples; they frame the situation as one of overcoming an obstacle or resolving an obstacle: The 4e DMG (p 72) uses different terminology ("goal" and "obstacles"): What’s the goal of the challenge? Where does the challenge take place? Who is involved in this challenge? Is it a...

The scenario in B2 is not about identifying motivations or enjoying a plausible story. It's a dungeon to be beaten. I know, from experience, that it is possible to use the module in a different way (see eg Keep on the Borderlands shenanigans). But that's a departure from what it is written for.

The DMG says the following (pp 72, 74-6: More so than perhaps any other kind of encounter, a skill challenge is defined by its context in an adventure. Adventurers can fight a group of five foulspawn in just about any 8th- to 10th-level adventure, but a skill challenge that requires the PCs to...

By whom? I mean, I know very little about your play. I don't recall ever reading an actual play thread started by you. This thread isn't about classifying anyone's play. It identifies a method, one that I believe is fairly well known, and asks about alternative ways of establishing latent...