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If you prompt someone to be ethical, is it really ethical? Or is it just following rules by rote? Without the ability to actually make decisions based on its own internal mores that might derive from several things that have nothing to do with the inputs you give it, I'd say it still doesn't...

So why is this even a point of controversy? In my particular post, I was just talking about peerage and automatic peerage based on sapience. I never spoke to the slavery, because it seemed quite evident.

Thinking about this - Lucas even makes it pretty transparent on screen in the first Star Wars movie (Ep IV: A New Hope). The Jawa droid setup looked akin to a traveling slave market. And they tortured R2-D2 to get the restraining bolt on. Also the scene with the R5(?) unit hanging upside down...

"Regardless of what the woke may wish," - Yeah, I'm out when someone says that unironically.

If you start to think about it in terms of the after effects if they just disappeared, then over 50% of the population was gone in that moment. I'd think that would be taken into account.

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It's really not as simple as that. I don't want to go into politics, but there's a lot surrounding this that makes this not as simple as saying that Americans elected him.

I'm saying that they aren't peers. If my computer became sentient at some point, that wouldn't make it de facto my peer. If someone clones a human then by the very nature of cloning it is still a human. Same with birth by the biological processes.

They were created from sentient life. They weren't parts created for machinery, but replicated children, force grown, genetically altered humans. There's a difference between cloning and manufacture.

Been argued disingenously. They had no part in the creation - we can't create life. We can create computers, machinery, robots and at some point one things that they might develop sentience. But they are still not self-replicating. At what point does machinery==life? Even if behaviors and such...

There is a very big difference. Made being 'manufactured' as any tool. Born is not a manufacture process.

The reason that I wouldn't call him a 'peer' is that he is made and not of the same 'stuff' as his makers. All droids are also not equal, in that the mouse droids and buzz droids don't seem to be on the same level. They're in servitude much as any tool that we create serves us- but at what point...

Agreed. And his relationship with Kleya in the flashbacks are one of the few times we really see the emotion beneath him. We see outrage and proselytizing and cunning- but only in those scenes do we see his heart, if only briefly, when he expresses his doubts about what he's doing to her.

Did we get more and I missed it? I only saw the room, then the terror, then the splitting (all of which were in context of other characters' actions). Then the coming back online. The only one really dedicated to him was coming back online or did I miss something else?

I was wondering if I was the only one, because I never saw it discussed anywhere. I wondered all sorts of things about their relationship, and they were never forthcoming with it until that penultimate episode. And it fit so well with the ambiguous nature of both their identities, summed up into...

I think that whole spiel about them losing control indicates that it is a partnership, particularly when she turns it on him that he Ok'd what they did with the listening device. She has the arrogance of youth on her side, while he has the frailties of age. And he very much taught her everything...

Yeah, I don't even see that. A lot of the hard decisions come directly from him. She provides needed logistics and intelligence, but we see him in action enough to know that it's a partnership at this point - not one over the other.

We get hints of that. He built it from scratch. I'm not sure where he got the antiquities he was hawking in the flashbacks, but he showed more than a passing familiarity. And towards the end, he was more refined and they seemed more genteel when he finally made his first strike. He'd been at it...

Ad Astra looks really cool on background and really crunchy on system. I have to digest what I can get for the setting because I can't see myself running that system.

And I think that's the point. It's that rebellions are made up of normal people that just decide that enough is enough.