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I mean I reckon its valid, otherwise Bard would probably be getting more votes As the number 1 sorcerer defender though, I'm pretty sure the sorcerer dislike is on the mechanical identity, because they've got a strong thematic one but a poor mechanical one, which is why merging them with the...

This started because it was talking about animal intellect as compared to humans, which is, y'know, a bit of a Subject with implications (IE: intellect isn't something we can actively measure for and doesn't really exist outside of being a RPG game stat. You can measure for relative brain...

Tortles are a fictional species who can talk and walk around, they're people. Same with hadozee. They're not the real life beings of turtles and chimpanzees

I'm very aware of korpokkur, but, y'know, myths where a gnome-like being described as beautiful have a biiiiit of a stretch that they ended up as bow legged, scraggly bearded, noted-in-game-text as looked down on caricture of a race Well, we're talking about it coming back as part of FR, so we...

Can you honestly say, when you read OA, that you thought "Yup, this is a place that fits in Faerun with no issues and follows similar thematic beats"? Which the game presents as rare and mystical things despite, in Faerun, spirit folks basically being expected to be common as heck due to...

Have you read the original OA? That's low magic and humanocentric in a way FR simply isn't. Its why people say it makes more sense more in Greyhawk. Folks don't ride quilen there, despite that being an easy due to like, the Great Yokai War (produced by the same folks who did Gamera) and wu jen...

Wholescale changes are absolutely required, because Kara-Tur wasn't designed for FR at all, and doesn't fit with the standard ideaes of Faerun in the first place. It stands out and not in a good way. It doesn't fit in the world. A kingdom where magic is rare and exciting to the point an...

Given pulp orientalism is, y'know, the older stuff, its generally considered as regularly slipping into downright offensive. Folks don't tend to like things that are offensive, and folks who buy things intended to offend others aren't exactly what I'd call a good audience to focus on We were...

Have you read OA? Kara-Tur is low magic. The Spelljammer port was added in later and didn't have any lore building off it or its implications for the wider setting, just slapped in with no concern for the wider worldbuilding Another part of the "Has not been written into the setting proper"...

I mean, I'd prefer a setting actually designed to make sense in FR and designed to actually incorporate setting ideas into it A low magic "anything that isn't human is rare and unusual and anti-flying magic is a good defence for a building!" low-magic setting like KT just doesn't work in the...

That's not gonna happen, Dark Sun has its. Actual issues, Eberron doesn't

I mean, they'll come along eventually. The problem with half elves though is what they are, half human (already another race) and half elf (also already. Another race) Extending the playable races to have more options in 'em is why the half elf is being removed, because in a lineup that's...

We only get a little mad from the megacorp. Meanwhile if someone suggested we remove gnomes from the game, I would be starting a fist fight in the metaphorical office, so to say we'd get a lot mad if we did it EDIT: Hengeyokai are so on my "Split them into at least 3" races thing and...

Just, going to remind you, we're talking about Class Identity in this topic. How distinct each class is So, yeah, they can't fit in everywhere. But.... That's good? Like, that's specifically what the thread is asking? "Is this class specific enough it has its own tropes, own ideas, own stance"...

That's not identity though? Everyone uses weapons, everyone's good at combat, over half the classes in the game use magic? What is the Fighter and Wizard's unique identity? What makes them the Fighter and the Wizard? Fitting in everyone isn't unique Most of the classes in the game use magic...

I mean, you said the exact problem. They don't have an identity of their own. They're too spread so their identity has been eroded away to be meaningless. Yeah, they can be anything, but that's not good in this case because in being anything they've completely missed being something more...

They're also the ones being absoluetly demolished in this poll on having no identity, that's the thing. You can certainly take them and do what you want and sure, fit a square peg into a round hole, but wouldn't a purpuse built, mechanically supported Swordmage also do that? Just, this way you...

I'd argue these aren't helping anything and worsening things. The more generic classes are the ones being accused of having no identity, so that's what should be avoided. Sorcerer's the one that isn't generic, but I'd argue sorcerer's issue is not having a mechanical identity, as opposed to a...

Good for your groups? I'm sure there's groups that do other weird stuff not included in the rules as well, doesn't mean we gotta shove all that in. 5E has races be a simple pile of "Here's your few + stats (since removed) and a few abilities", its not a place for penalties and certainly not a...

Its not how the game is designed, and the only two races that had penalties were orcs and kobolds, in a blatent display of "Yeah we don't want you playing these". People were justifiably annoyed and, shock and horror, they got removed. Shock and horror, game is designed a specific way and...