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Do not agree and you have left a lot of straw lying around to be picked up. Show me how mathematically? How do you know what Damage Threshold a minion ogre in MY 5e game would be? Because that is what you are responding to, right? My words were ...but not for how I see them being implemented...

So we agree

You asked me about the designers intention which I have no idea on. Whether I have used them or not I still could only guess on the designers intention. For the record I have used minions in the past and I intend to in the future to stream line higher level play. I do not buy into the...

Agreed. My old MMs are as valuable as the current MM. I wasn't making that argument LOL!!!. My table's 5e dragons are feared, not only by farmers with crossbows but by high level adventurers.

White Dragon ANCIENT 18AC no dexterity bonus Red Dragon ADULT 19AC no dexterity bonus Roper 20AC dexterity penalty (AC is actually 21 then)

Good grief if Daenerys had the type of dragons as statted by 5e she wouldn't have been able to take over Mole's Town nevermind Kings Landing.

Behir - created as weapons vs dragons, lightning breath, decent natural armour Umber Hulk - carapace excellent natural armour Bulette - excellent natural armour ...Etc We will have to agree to disagree as I feel I'd have to change all the above monsters for logical parity. Some of them don't...

Agree. Quite often I use weight, reach, resistance, immunity, supernatural abilities etc from 3x to modify 5e monsters. We already have touch attacks for ethereal (bypassing normal armour/shields) and halving magical armour/shields AC benefit).

A dragon is "natural" it is not ethereal (like undead), it isn't from another plane of existence (fiends) and it isn't held together by magic. If giants don't need magic weapons to be hurt I don't see why dragons would. I would love to know what logic you have for dragons needing magical weapons.

I would have gone with damage reduction (ala heavy armour mastery feat) or damage threshold. I don't see the reason why a dragon should be immune to non-mag weapons. In fact I do do that for my own campaign.

It was tongue-and-cheek, but I strongly suspect Lanefan would actually enjoy our table, despite the differences we have in playstyles.

I have a feeling @jasper plays in game stores...poor jasper

I didn't even know they did one for 3e! Join us Lanefan on this side of 2000, I guarantee you so much fun! ;)

To be honest I do not know, but I would guess that would be the major reason. EDIT: In a way it can also function as 4e's version of Bounded Accuracy (monster's remain viable for longer). But there are so many other ways to do this - you could use 3.x's Hardness and Damage Reduction rules...

For combat - minions are traditionally used in combat. Minions can stream-line high level combat, I'm not needing to track 30+ minions worth of hit points anymore. In the Storm Kings Thunder AP, the last chapter literally has the party face 30 gargoyles in the Amphitheatre, which dragon's lair...

I'm struggling to accept this as a credible argument and your initial post down this line. Lets cut dragonborn (I'm not personally a fan) from 5e, does that make 5e a lesser design? I do not think so, probably makes it better in my eyes. Lets cut monks (I'm not personally a fan) from 5e, does...

That is interesting that so little was taken from 3e. Do you still use 1e-2e's saving throw systems? attack matrixes? turn undead? So no Feats? Ah right. I wouldn't think that would be a good fit for your game either. What about atunement? Ah yes, that was a great idea for recharging monster...

As a preface I will reiterate my table is around 15th level. I do track hit points, when we play - we play in my lounge and I open up an excel on my tv monitor which tracks initiative, conditions, notes and hit points. I do though appreciate the simplicity that minions can bring to an invovled...

Out of interest how much of 2e's Handbooks, 3e, 4e's Rituals, or 5e has found its way into your table's game? And how do you incorporate new rules - the table voted, the DMs (as I know it's more than just you) or you alone?

Well here is where I agree and disagree with you. For the opening of the door I prefer a consistent DC. It reminds me of the skill tables provided in 3.x with set DCs for checks. For a monster though, given how abstract hit points are, + how the design behind encounters is ever changing...