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Yeah, not following the thread, so I can't comment on context here. But point of clarification. I know first hand that BryonD never said that. What was said is that the Medusa of myth turned you into stone if you looked at her, period. It was said that if you did a "person on the street"...

Exactly. This is what I immediately thought. Of course, I was also a fan of Grim Tales, which took the class construction idea of D20 Modern and ran with it.

As a huge PF fan who was very underwhelmed by 4E, I'm also seeing some big picture concepts that were advertised and/or included in 4E. And they are all things that are positive. I have no doubt there will be 100 shades of grey on every topic. But the fundamental "issues" with 4E from a PF...

I agree that a bad system is a bad system. But I don't agree that this example in the least. You have completely neglected to offer any information about what else is happening, thus your example creates a false idea that there is nothing to engage or entertain Billy. If THAT is true, the it...

wow time machine post. :)

On topic.... I'm cautiously optimistic and mostly feeling like I have nothing to lose. I like 5E and I like PF 1E even more. If I just ran the stuff on my shelf (unplayed APs alone) I've got quite a few years. And my current campaign is a 2 year old home brew. So I'm set for life. A big...

I'm not on-board with "standard" spells requiring multiple rounds to cast. So maybe this isn't a great place to comment. But I will offer that if Billy is walking away from the table then the DM isn't doing a very good job. I completely believe that a well run game can, and should, be just as...

Sorry for the long delay. But yeah, round and round we go. And this quote does a decent job of summing it up. You can't follow the concept of players interacting with setting elements via their PCs within an RPG unless they have the ability to author them. That is just stunning. As I've...

He said he knows from experience. And there is the answer. It is all about preconceived notions and then selecting the evidence backwards to establish the presumed conclusion. Heaven forbid that someone else have both the narrative "in character" joy AND also have a great game. To quote...

I think the disconnect is that you take a reasonable position, differing player agency in differing systems and/or group dynamics, and then you make an flawed leap to how that is important to the merits of the game. People react to the second part as controversial and you misdirect that. And...

Certainly. I think under normal circumstances my reply to you would be "well, duh!" :) But in context my reply still describes a meaningful distinction.

I think there is another important distinction. And, consistent with what you have said, I don't make any claim of inherent superiority. It is all about what is fun to who. But there is a lot that can be said about "NO" in the tabletop RPG context that differs from simply improv acting. To...

This is a mistake. I can't know, but I'm willing to presume that you have experienced it (I'm guessing more than once) and thus presumed this is the way it is for everyone. But if your claim was correct then the games would not be fun. If the game was not fun, few people would play it. If few...

this

When one side flatly states that they can't perceive the other sides position, doesn't that mean it is time to stop trying to reach a meaningful resolution?

how could that possibly be even contemplated as objective fact? It is abundantly clear that to some large number of people the value of that agency is less than the cost of it. Which isn't to claim that the opposite is any less purely preference. It is objective fact that there are groups...

Some time back Pemerton and I had multiple conversations on the specific topic of "role playing" vs. "authorship" and the merits and drawbacks of players being completely limited to things they could do if they truly were in the shoes of their character vs players sharing some of the function of...

Rather amusing conversation. Of course from WotC's perspective any activity inside the concept of "D&D" counts, be it board games, computer games, or TTRPGs. And, of course from the perspective of "mainstream acceptance" any activity in which the person is engaged in recreational activity...

Yeah, yeah. We've been around this logically broken block before. If you consider 3E/3.5/PF to be completely different editions, then I simply don't consider your commentary to be adequately thoughtful. I can't do anything about that and it doesn't change anything. So: Noted.