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Did you notice that you proved the point by ignoring the effort to discuss the process of the process of gm<>player collaboration cooperative collaboration and choosing to call it disengenuius?

You've said that multiple times through the discussion to wall off any justification for the to even be capable of curating the game/campaign setting when a player wants to add something in conflict with it. If that shade throwing you keep tossing out applied to any relevant degree it cuts both...

I too don't engage in fate style world creation when running d&d. Even in systems like fate with tools for the gm to manage that sort of collaboration it is quite the task trying to get players to grasp it so they can contribute at all without someone looking at it from a video game perspective...

More than one of the examples where the pro Jedi Klingon & tortle crowd insisted the gm make revisions to fit were either in an official setting like eberron and darksun or outright asked if the same demand applied if the gm declined to accept something because it didn't fit an official setting...

Eberron campaign setting was published in 2004. 😜 I think that's a little over twice that ten year mark at this point. Ravenloft forgotten realms karatura and others are much older then years. However your complaint is also why every edition has eberron starting in 998yk explicitly by design...

I've been considering bringingup a less silly less extreme example from actual game I've run than the hypothetical burn down a town and lynching one being flung around for a few pages now, but that tangent was pretty heated because it links to a point I made earlier showing the importance of...

That goes both ways. I shudder at the thought of playing in a campaign where action has do little consequence or concern that the gm doesn't even bother to consider tracking the impacts of play on it. Maybe it's a symptom of a willingness to toss out anything previously established to be...

Soooo? Randos are still randos. Sometimes possible player is still just a rando who hasn't yet cleared the bar to become a player. I guess.... Remember that not every prospective player clears the bar needed to be considered a player or show up and expect to be treated like a player

I think that's an oversimplification. The players don't need to extend as much trust because the rules are designed to pressure the gm to be trustworthy while the reverse has been going far in the other direction. Earlier I linked to/embedded a recent video from Daddy rolled a 1 covering...

Not at all. You (as a hypothetical player§) could find a different table with a different gm. Why would a decent gm need to look hard in order find a different player if one bows out? there have been multiple points in time where I had players crossing their fingers and putting their contact...

I didn't say special, I said lack/absence the fact that you need to reframe it so speaks volumes. None of those three are prisoners dilemma or even adjacent. A player can always choose to not be a player or stop being a player, but a gm typically has 3-5 players and it's not reasonable for a...

Perhaps that shows your problem with interpreting the three is one of empathy where player to gm ratio at just about every table leaves the gm as an otherized position that has become synonymous for many with a service provider role expected to just do their job. by players who don't have a...

Omce again that doesn't matter because there have been many many attempts to talk about the process of gm<>player cooperative collaboration on an abstract level many times. Often those were with intentionally absurd examples involving things Jedi and Klingons on TOS era federation ships that...

I agree on some level , but that also results in a self nullifying reason that can be equally applied to both sides where it immediately cancels out for both and we go back to looking for an reason with some actual level of reasonability just to avoid dismissing "because I want to" as an...

Either way it at least provides some understandable justification that explains why the tortle keeps circling back to "no because it's not a tortle" for basically any effort to suggest some middle ground that could fit a setting. If that's not the cage... great! that immediately raises the...

Quite the opposite. My local AL community has a huge number of them and a big part of it is because they aren't treated like they should be ashamed of it like you just implied. They keep showing up being nerdy d&d players paying the shop hosting a whole room of tables and chairs§ their 2$ ...

I think that the disconnect is one of willingness to feel comfortable enough being honest with the answer lurking behind that. The closest we probably got was when someone brought up a desire to play an anthropomorphic turtle without using the more common slang term for it. Nearly any other...

Thsts not what is being said by the folks saying the player must adapt their PC to fit the setting or campaign though. Player implies that they found out about the game, chose to join the game, and are still choosing to play. If they choose to find a different gm because they are unwilling to...

Id add an exception for explaining common cultural/national knowledge because it comes up fairly often in my eberron games where I'll point out a common bit of (potentially incorrect propaganda sourced) bit of knowledge or attitude towards someone/something/somewhere among those who hail from...

Why is a random post of mine from a couple days ago quoted between 3-4 other seemingly unrelated quotes ?