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IMO, the market was well primed and just needed the right outlet.

OK, I think that is a bizarre exit point. But whatever. Seems deeply irrelevant to everything else that has been stated. If I hated 1E everything I said would apply exactly the same. If you decide you can answer any of my questions or explain why they need to wait until the future to get a...

You are still avoiding my questions. You should be able to answer them. Throwing around a bunch of hand waving about pulled from the air percentages of former PF1 fans vs converted 5E fans ignores the elephant in the room. YOU said that they need a hit AP to be big. You repeat that point in...

I see a lot of fallacies here. You start throwing around a bunch of ad hominems. "obsessives" "wonks" and of course the dreaded "edition warrior". How about we just try objective assessments? If PF2 had bumped 5E off the #1 spot would you be here saying that the system was irrelevent to...

No. I think you are totally wrong there. For better AND for worse, PF1 was 3.5. Their first big poster proclaimed "3.5 Thrives". And at the time there was a ton of discontent with 4E. And the marketplace overall was not burned out on that mechanical system. (The OGLs impact on WotC's...

Maybe you can't learn much about how Paizo is doing. But it is a perfectly valid bit of data to imply how PF2 is resonating amongst players. And, as a player, I find that topic both much more accessible and interesting. I find the Paizo financial health thing to be something of a red...

But aren't you going pretty far afield now? First, the topic is not "how is Paizo's health as a company". The topic is "How is PF2 itself doing? With a strong tone of 'compared to how PF1 used to be doing' added on." Vague comments from over a decade ago and back when the market place was...

But still in the 50s for gaming. The jump in overall without a jump in the gaming group is interesting. I guess a lot of people are buying gaming books as presents.

It would seem you did. :)

Not sure I follow the baseball metaphor. But, yes. With the point being "not really even close to most like". Let me ask you this: I'm playing 2E. My character wants to hit a minotaur with a stick. You can ask one question and you need to guess my odds of success. What one question do...

Exactly. The difference between completely anti-optimized and fully optimized is typically going to be something like 40% vs 65%. agreed

Please go back and read what I wrote. As I have stated several times now, you clearly can tell any story and do anything you want to in PF2E. But the mechanics, by intent, do not place stress on the narrative elements when determining resolution. I have already explained that. The fact that...

I think you are ascribing motives to others. But beyond that, it is more than simply details. I spelled out my complaint and you have made zero effort to respond to what I actually said. As I made clear, of course you can tell the same story for any system, but the reality remains that some...

OK. In context of this reply I'm not sure how your prior response really says anything to me. Yes, the STORY is the same. I want a system that mechanically engages that story. Chess isn't as close to DnD as PF. That was the point. But there is a scale and saying different RPGs land at...

I accept that. You may be looking for a different experience in the game than me. But, for me the math and the fiction DON'T line up well at all. The "fiction" is certainly the same, because the players bring that to the table. How the mechanics reflect that fiction into cause and effect...

Agreed. But.... Now I assume when you say you think they have succeeded, I presume here that you are only speaking for yourself. Obviously that would be truth, but in the context here, the question was about wide appeal, not just case by case. You described it as a narrow fanbase appeal...

It seems you are saying that PF2E was designed with intent to target a "narrow" portion of the fanbase, thus actively, knowingly, and deliberately not supporting the fanbase outside of that narrow band. If you are not saying this, would you please clarify. FWIW, I don't for a second think they...

The 4E DMG, page 42 provides an example. The example involves a rogue; an ogre; a chandelier; and a brazier. It then shows how to determine the DC. That procedure ignores: being a rogue; the ogre; the chandelier; and the brazier. The example asks "what level is the character?". That is the...

The upside you have stated here is completely generic and also true of every "quality" TTRPG in existence. Quite simply, there are things that the players bring to the table and there are things the words printed between the covers of the book bring to the table. Games should be judged based...

I think it is worth pointing out that at this stage of 4E it was considered a massive success. "New York Times Bestseller" etc etc. Yes, there was the split base issue before the release even happened. But the tone, early on, was not "gee, is this bad?" but rather "see, we told you so". And...