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I once had my Zealot barbarian player "punished" by embracing a condition that caused him to only be able to use his necrotic strike option (radiant wouldn't work) - that same condition caused this to another NPC zealot as well, it was very clearly narrated (not a trap). This is in a very...

NO mechanical liability? Or just no class features removed? I can picture a paladin being ashamed of their actions and thus having a good amount of social disadvantage particularly with exemplar paladins, maybe bleeding over to a combat disadvantage of some type with limitations... but then...

I wouldn't need to "impose" because I would have discussed how these class philosophy or constraints will shape the PC. But if they spit in the face of the PC they created I would try to right the ship. I feel the paladin does need some form of principle-driven behavior for example... otherwise...

Doesn't bother me much, though you might still expect, if I were DM'ing for the axe-chopping block loom to be a pushed narrative thus again "making the patron matter" I might also make the patron try to push events to expedite the process, again making the patron matter at least in narrative...

Thx, it has been my baby for several years. If I have stress, a wandering mind, or watch a disparate themed show I have jotted so many notes in a journal. It is crazy how inspired you can get when you take something not geared to high fantasy and bend it into that frame.. Always Sunny In...

I could see how this works for you. I use the VTT whisper on a macro for each player, so I do whisper alot of specialized knowledge to the wizard or warlock. There is a buttload of lore... so depending on your playstyle and campaign purpose. Mine has alot of mystery-solving. The wizard has been...

As long as it is still conceptually a warlock, yes. Also, you said there is still a patron (core feature), just minimized interaction, still fine. I may ask for just a base pact background maybe it is simply a demon wanting to bring more chaos into the world by: "pulling the pin from the...

I was thinking too, the group goes as it will. If this seems to be a case of a player just not getting their way and the rest of the group doesn't chime in, then you know it was just the player. I have yet to see a playgroup where any of this happens with adults though

Interesting, this take is a different angle. Yes, mine is homebrew as well & that does influence my opinion.

As far as "GM agency", if you have hours tons of tabulated info sunk into a campaign with well-written dialogue-points. And you want to call it "my story" you should be able to. Now, if the players are equally loving about their characters the GM should be somewhat obligated to recognize solid...

I enjoy all this and the fun thing about it is what someone noted buried up in the post further: often enough the GM is reluctant to involve the patron much and the player is pushing for it. This is more likely than the doom and gloom stuff that the OP never mentioned when the discussion took a...

This is a good, extensive debate. Thank you mod for allowing it. Mark of a good mod, knowing that things can be heated, but without name-calling, requesting personal information, etc... Please, do not bring personal information requests into this, it is off-point and pertains to nothing... it...

No, from what I read several times.. it is about the import of the patron to the whole package. Then posters assuming IMPORTANCE or gravitas is all the punitive 🪓 + chopping block.

Yep, and when those situations do occur. I will hit rewind a little and re-phrase the narrative up to a character core-value break. More often than not it involves some sort of narrative confusion occurring with the player :)

Indeed. My players are finding out that a simple "remove curse" or "greater restoration" are culture-changing, history-altering spells in barbarian country :)

I'm not understanding the nonstop punitive assumption here. It looks like some DMs saying the patron should matter and then you jump to tirades about assumed punishment. All those class counterpoint are punitive.. but previous statements are not all punitive regarding the Warlock

Yes, one is institutional, one is individualized.

Their institutions do. Their temples/church typically have a whole load of commandments or expectations. This is likely on the DM and expectation setting if their is no communication with a temple. I personally love the church hierarchy stuff in my game. But, yeah, probably not speaking with...

Thinking back on our "cleric", I can understand what you say. That player just kind of crapped out Celestian.. which is nebulous at best compared to the main pantheon players, so I had to cater-fill a good bit of institutional lore there to make the character make sense at the very least. The...

Fair :)