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If you accept it once, you have no good argument against it the next time, irrespective of how likely it is. I also don’t think that they reject the tortle just because of some slippery slope argument, the slippery slope is just an additional hurdle. I assume that plays into it on both sides...

no we don’t, that never was the rationale for rejecting the tortle to begin with…

the visuals were unacceptable for some DMs and essential for some players, other players were not willing to compromise at all yes it does, which is why even a compromise might not work / be the compromise they are looking for. Same for the DM side

I agree, it needs to be discussed, that was the whole point, but the answer frequently enough was ‘it needs to be a tortle, nothing else will do’

ok, I thought you insisted on both, so you were ok with one of the two compromises and the DM was looking for the other (no turtle visuals)

well, you are the first I see that says DH is considerably less crunchy, most reviews / comparisons pegged it at basically 5e levels Not sure the number of values on a sheet make all that much difference in the complexity of play, ie DH is not 25% as complex as 5e just because it has 8 values...

deciding on a quest or picking a campaign is not that much more than answering ‘what do you do?’. I was thinking of actually adding things to the world, frequently on the fly, not of ‘assigning a task to the DM’ struggling with it is one thing, the other is it just not being what they want, as...

I’d say the conflict is between the DM’s preferences and the player’s. The DM expresses those in the setting, but consistency might not be the only thing that matters, aesthetics can matter too, just like the player was not happy with being a tortle in all but the visual. and that one creature...

another thing to consider is that this is not actually happening, it was a fictional example while in real life apparently no one had any issues with @AlViking ’s restrictions

you may not be claiming it outright, but I have a hard time seeing anything else in your responses. Even your proposed ‘compromise’ was to let the player be a turtle

which means what, Human, Dwarf, Elf, Halfling? Unsure about which ones exactly are in, but I agree that this is the only one where you may have a point about it being pretty limited. Still, ‘you’ knew this when joining / proposing the turtle no, trying to drag a chest too heavy to carry out of...

they might all be false though… Not sure what races they have or what their ranking of weirdness is, but yeah, you select from what is allowed Characters can steal, they cannot be evil. Robin Hood fits that. Not having a halfling empire you can be the king of is miles away from not allowing...

that cuts both ways

so DH is significantly less crunchy? that was not my understanding sure, but there is a bit of difference between describing what your character does and inventing things in the world I am far from convinced that most players would prefer the latter

you can show up with a character concept, you just cannot insist on it and might have to tweak or abandon it. The GM did not bring ‘concepts of a world’, they have a world they have been running for years and the player is joining it, so yeah, their idea for a character kinda has to fit into it...

Well, we started at ‘a player wants to be a tortle even though it does not exist in the setting’, there was basically no time spent on how we got here. I am pretty sure something along the lines of ‘this is the setting and theme, do you want to join’ happens in most cases before the player then...

If anyone is getting curious about the game, there is a bundle going on that gets you the game and all adventures (#66 to #108, 65 and before are for 3e and 4e) as PDFs for $18...

the issue was the lack of challenge, you can play D&D with fewer fights, just don’t expect them to be overly challenging, and the same appears to be true for DH (based on what was said, have no 1st hand experience)

I guess we will see what Dungeons of Drakkenheim for DH will look like. From the pitch it sounded like they are working closely with the DH creators.

given that this is about AI content in RPG products, I would expect most of that to come from LLMs rather than something trained on tumor scanning, and the results reflect that