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  1. Reef

    D&D 5E (2024) Why is wotc still aiming for PCs with 10 *real word* feet of range? W/o vision range penalty/limit rules for the GM?

    Say you do that (which I'm not in favour of), and then you end up with a situation like they had in Pathfinder...where everyone spends 6 rounds rolling and accomplishing nothing. I can't see how that's any improvement at all.
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    D&D 5E (2024) Why is wotc still aiming for PCs with 10 *real word* feet of range? W/o vision range penalty/limit rules for the GM?

    On the other hand, BA is a major selling point for my group. And we're so over adding up bonuses and penalties. But that's why we play this and not Pathfinder. Takes all kinds, of course.
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    D&D 5E (2024) Why is wotc still aiming for PCs with 10 *real word* feet of range? W/o vision range penalty/limit rules for the GM?

    That might work in Pathfinder, but won't in 5e unless they are going to chuck the Advantage/Disadvantage mechanic for lots of modifiers. Which I highly doubt they'll do, as it's one of the big selling points for 5e over something more granular like Pathfinder. And I seriously doubt this issue...
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    D&D 5E (2024) Why is wotc still aiming for PCs with 10 *real word* feet of range? W/o vision range penalty/limit rules for the GM?

    So what ranges do you want that don’t need justifying? Half longbow range to 300’? Still need to dash 5 rounds to get into melee range. 200’? Still dashing 3 rounds. 100’? Okay, fits on a small battlemap, melee characters still have to dash 1-2 rounds, but now you have the opposite...
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    D&D 5E (2024) Why is wotc still aiming for PCs with 10 *real word* feet of range? W/o vision range penalty/limit rules for the GM?

    @tetrasodium, of course the players are going to react and adjust to the world the DM presents (although I’d object to the idea that the world has trees is somehow a agency-robbing trick). I’d expect no less. If the DM presents a world that is a giant flat, featureless plain (which they can...
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    No, Ultramodern5 did not rip off Outgunned's cover.

    I guess the difference is where you draw the line on homage. Both pieces are clearly inspired by, and are meant to be a reference to the Wick image. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. The difference is, the first artist went off and drew their own interpretation of the idea. The second...
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    No, Ultramodern5 did not rip off Outgunned's cover.

    Although to be fair, seeing them together, it almost looks like the tiefling one was painted over the Wick one. The hands are all practically identical. I bet you could overlay them and they’d match up. The first image, although obviously sharing inspiration, at least looks like it was an...
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    D&D 5E (2024) Why is wotc still aiming for PCs with 10 *real word* feet of range? W/o vision range penalty/limit rules for the GM?

    I’m still amazed that you think the DM needs to “take the heat” for creating challenges for the players. That’s the DM’s job…come up with interesting scenarios that the players work together to overcome. Sometimes that means putting them in situations where they can’t use their favourite...
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    D&D 5E (2024) New One D&D Playtest Includes 5 Classes & New Weapon Mastery System

    Which is great, but not every campaign runs that way. Either by DM style, or just the nature of the current quest which prohibits stops. And with few classes dependent on Short rests, stopping for a whole hour becomes problematic (narratively, if nothing else). Which is why I suggested it had...
  10. Reef

    D&D 5E (2024) New One D&D Playtest Includes 5 Classes & New Weapon Mastery System

    The way I see it, unless you make the time it takes trivial, people still run into the same issues. My preferred solution would be to make them no more than five minutes, but limit how many time you can benefit from them during a Long Rest (either two or three, in order to keep the number in...
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    D&D 5E (2024) New One D&D Playtest Includes 5 Classes & New Weapon Mastery System

    Yeah, I'd agree. I also find it gard to believe anyone wanting to risk a level of exhaustion. If the situation is dire enough to want to risk a short rest, it's probably dire enough not to want to risk the exhaustion.
  12. Reef

    D&D 5E (2024) Why is wotc still aiming for PCs with 10 *real word* feet of range? W/o vision range penalty/limit rules for the GM?

    Like I said, I've obviously misinterpreted. I thought the whole point about you feeling pressured to constantly map out the battlefield (which I thought was the whole point of your thread) was due to player misunderstandings. If that's not the case, I'm back to not understanding what the...
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    D&D 5E (2024) Why is wotc still aiming for PCs with 10 *real word* feet of range? W/o vision range penalty/limit rules for the GM?

    I'm sorry, I'm not trying to shift goal posts. I obviously must be greatly misunderstanding the situation. From reading this thread, what I've gathered is: 1) Your players are constantly misunderstanding the details of a scene. This is causing them to demand do-overs, which starts with one...
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    D&D 5E (2024) Why is wotc still aiming for PCs with 10 *real word* feet of range? W/o vision range penalty/limit rules for the GM?

    Just to add, @tetrasodium, if this is what you are dealing with regularly, you must have the patience of a saint. Seriously, a much better person than I am. It would have driven me to quit long before. So, I salute you for that!
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    D&D 5E (2024) Why is wotc still aiming for PCs with 10 *real word* feet of range? W/o vision range penalty/limit rules for the GM?

    No. I am saying any player that gives you problems to the degree you are describing is a problem. Misunderstandings happen. The DM has to clear it up and make a decision. Sometimes its in the players favour, sometimes its not. That's the way the game works. And always has. The amount of...
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    D&D 5E (2024) Why is wotc still aiming for PCs with 10 *real word* feet of range? W/o vision range penalty/limit rules for the GM?

    I’m sorry, but any player who acts with the level of resistance that you describe kind of is a problem player.
  17. Reef

    D&D 5E (2024) Why is wotc still aiming for PCs with 10 *real word* feet of range? W/o vision range penalty/limit rules for the GM?

    Then I’d say your players have unrealistic expectations. Expecting you to map out to that extent is not reasonable. I use VTTs all the time, and preparing that amount of mapping isn’t as easy as you say (unless you are literally scribbling on the fly). The players experience the world through...
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    D&D 5E (2024) Why is wotc still aiming for PCs with 10 *real word* feet of range? W/o vision range penalty/limit rules for the GM?

    Okay, so it is the ranges of attacks that is the problem you are seeing. I’m sorry if I’m slow. I have to admit I sometimes get lost in the large posts you do (but that’s on me). I’m certainly not trying to be patronizing when I make suggestions for how to potentially deal with these...
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    D&D 5E (2024) Why is wotc still aiming for PCs with 10 *real word* feet of range? W/o vision range penalty/limit rules for the GM?

    But again, what are you looking for? All you keep doing is saying about how easy it is for VTT’s to adjust maps, and therefore players expect huge battlemaps. Here’s your Magic Wand of Game Design (tm). Wave it and make WOTC change D&D to your specifications. What would you do? Smaller...
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    D&D 5E (2024) Why is wotc still aiming for PCs with 10 *real word* feet of range? W/o vision range penalty/limit rules for the GM?

    I’m obviously not them, but if I’m gathering it correctly, their players don’t trust that they’re not being screwed with if they can’t see every inch. Which is why they are resisting using TotM for long range contacts.
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