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An encounter in which the players can make meaningful decisions as to how to proceed. "A thief stealing something via off-screen resolution methods that the players have no access to" is only principled play for games where you assume sim/trad principles. That being that the fiction gets its...

It's not really the transformation that's problematic. It isn't even really about invoking a consequence. It's more about the idea that the GM is evaluating your play, finding it lacking, and then administering punishment. It's deep in the DNA of the game, with paladins getting forced back...

It looks like GM fiat, which is why I don’t do it.

But none of those characters exist together. We’re not doing the Lanefan thing where everyone’s setting is connected to everyone else’s.

It is an issue! I hate it! Edit: And also, there aren’t thousands of PCs. There are maybe 6?

I also think that the patron should have a lot of leverage in the narrative. Where we probably disagree is that I don’t think that a GM’s judgment call is necessary to implement that leverage. Now, for the OP, since it was the player’s specific request to implement such a relationship, of...

What part of my posts gives any indication I care about things like RAW or previous lore? I couldn’t care less about what’s correct. I care about what makes for the best gameplay and most interesting stories.

And if that happens, all the better. “Disillusioned cleric tries to find the origin of faith driven magic” sounds like a story hook to me.

Because clerics don’t get their powers from gods, of course. Asked and answered.

You say this like it's a bad thing.

Fair. I’m aware of SW, but have mostly ignored it, precisely because I’m not looking for new trad games when the 800-lb gorilla fills that space.

Assume all RPG references are to Paranoia, citizen.

I mean, any game that has stats pretty similar to D&D's I'm probably going to fold under the umbrella of D&Dishness for discussion purposes. I'm sure there are some weird counter-examples (Dungeon World?), but as a general rule it works. I generally equate trad with "D&Dish" at this point in...

To be fair, when the conversation transitioned from railroading to Intelligence scores somewhere around post #500, an assumption of "D&Dishness" feels more warranted. The conversation about "low stats" and how they're roleplayed doesn't really crop up much outside the D&D-like sphere. I also...

"Red Wizard shot the food! Red Wizard is about to die!"

Group hug? :)

Yes, that's exactly my problem with the more common viewpoints around classes. It's the idea that thousands of NPCs are all going to receive the same training and the same growth in abilities in exactly the same order. I do have games where that happens, but it's only in the context that class...

For reference of newer posters: https://www.enworld.org/threads/geniuses-with-5-int.482860/

Oh, it's definitely game specific; any of my arguments against are entirely centering around D&D play. There are plenty of games where deciding if the character has the ability to even take a certain action is a central pillar of play.

Well, it’s there and pretty popular. :) And players like classes, because they provide them with concept hooks and a conceptual framework. But yes, I’ve always gravitated away from strict classes. That’s why I loved Skills and Powers back in the AD&D days.