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I'm not sure what you mean by "true TPK". If the PCs are all defeated in battle, that doesn't have to mean the end of the campaign. For instance, they might all be taken prisoner.

If the campaign has a "save the world" premise, and the PCs all die, then it seems to me that the world hasn't been saved! Bringing in the second string, in the way that was being talked about, suggests that the whole thing doesn't relate to the PCs in any particular fashion. It's the GM's...

I think this shows the force of @chaochou's post upthread: if the "plot" is maintained, and new PCs are brought in to try and carry it forward, who is setting those PCs' goals? It doesn't look like it's their players.

Because you asked me upthread about my understanding of railroading, I just wanted to make an observation about this. The difference of experience you describe is the GM deciding things in response to the players' action declarations. But it doesn't preclude the GM doing that more-or-less...

Yeah, this is what I posted upthread. To be fair to @Charlaquin, I think she's imagining a baseline that is not set internally to the fiction and play of Dark Sun, but rather set relative to the default expectations of an experienced D&D player.

Thanks for the reply. That's interesting, and makes sense.

Out of curiosity, what was the system, and/or theme, that prompted the GM to be proactive in this way?

The non-D&D FRPG I mentioned, with the GM's Elves, was Burning Wheel. Well, I could say that Luke Crane already did that . . . But making my own attempt: Removal of player agency suggests some default level of agency that ought to be granted, but is not. What's the default level? Well, my...

Nor did TSR.

No. Because all not RPGing involves the GM more-or-less unilaterally deciding on the significant elements of scenes, their stakes, and what comes next. No, I'm meaning more than that. I'm meaning that the fiction is - in some fashion, at least to some extent - focused on ideas, themes, tropes...

Maybe - I don't speak for them, and I've not played with them and don't know anything about their RPGing other than their accounts of it. I'm just expressing my understanding of what railroading is, and relating it to @chaochou's, which I'm close to but probably not quite identical to. I...

Isn't this just replicating - or (if one thinks it's not a full replication) alluding to - the role of druids in AD&D Dark Sun as guardians of little areas of greenery? Instead of Preservation, just call it Circle of the Guarded Lands. To me, there seems to be a lot of "this amp goes to 11"...

And in the 4e D&D MM.

Yes: But there are nuances. For instance, if the GM has the authority but, in exercising it, is influenced by the players then it may not be the case that the GM is setting all the goals and all the stakes.

This is just one of many examples of game design that has nothing to do with the fiction, but rather certain dynamics of game play, resounding and echoing down the ages. I mean, there's no in-principle reason why we can't resolve charging a giant or charging a dragon as make a saving throw to...

No, because there are ways of not acting unilaterally that don't depend upon express consent. Here's just one simple illustration, from 4e D&D play: a player builds their PC, and plays their PC, as a fanatical devotee of the Raven Queen; and so I, as GM, introduce undead, and Orcus cultists, as...

I suck at "smart" play both as player and GM. It's why I'm not a very good GM of classic D&D dungeon-esque stuff. And why I loved 4e D&D.

In my view, if the bulk of play in some episode of RPGing involves the players solving a puzzle or "issue" that the GM has more-or-less unilaterally put in front of them, the play is probably pretty railroad-y. It can depend a bit on what the puzzle or issue is - if the players are mostly...

Here's my report of setting up and running a LotR/MERP game: Middle Earth/LotR RPGing using Cortex+ Heroic. One result of doing it as a RPG was that Gandalf was not as resistant to temptation/corruption as in JRRT's version.

Well, that last sentence probably points in a few interesting directions . . .