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Anecdotal data is anecdotal data. WOTC didnt abandon you anymore than they abandoned the people of 1st edition when 2nd came out or 2nd when 3E came out. And really 4E=Wow?. Really? IMHO: If anything, 4E caters to the older crowd, I for example no longer have 3 hours to design...

You do realize this thread was started by someone stating that 4E was a failure because there were no games for it at Dragoncon? And seriously guys, its been more than a year..can we let this go? Everyone plays whatever they want, doesnt matter if its 4E, PF or Fatal.

There are plenty [++] and [--] threads for al lot of games, not only Pathfinder, Pathfinder is just the flavor fo the month. heck the whole last year was a [++]&[--] D&D fest. I think they are moderated adequately, mods only jump in when people start PA or start comparing gay people to...

I concurr. Not only uncalled for but totally bad form. Doing this in another forum is kinda backstabbity. /shrug

Talk about riling up a crossboard mess. Let me guess you 2 got banned from RPG.net and are still bitter? As for RPG.net itself, there are ample discussions both positive and negative about pathfinder, 3.5, 4E, and any other 3E variation. The [--] and [++] tags are there to segregate both...

Nope, not changing. After seeing the SRD I see no reason to change, least of all pay $50 for some fiddly house rules. Our group will stick to its 4E and 3E games.

Goodman Games • View topic - My opinion on D&D 4E

What lesson was that? Did 4E FR sales tanked ? Or are you refering to the intrawebs nerdrage?

Your 4E game mastery is showing.

So you really pretend for your GM to make up a Bare Chested Prestige class just to justify him as a threat? really? A whole Prestige class just for one encounter? really? Okay now I get it. You have trust issues with your GM. You requiere him to prove mathematically everything that happens...

How is this different in 4E? It is not. Its a minion, but if it faces a town beggar armed with a rock, that poor beggar will be skewered in no time. A minion will be a minion to a PC but that same minion may change to a full monster to an NPC or any other monster. It's all relative, get it...

To me thats just an overcomplication and uneeded extra bookeeping. If I place 1st level opponents against a 9th level party I just expect them to die, its their main reason. I agree that minions are there to die. Yeah thats their whole shindig, same way you placed low level monsters against a...

Exactly the same function a level 1 monster vs a 9th level party does in earlier editions. Same thing.

Isnt it the same thing? Earlier editions: 9th level party meets a group of 1st level kobolds. Wizard uses fireball and inflcts 20 points of damage each. They are all dead since they had only 4 hit points. 4E: 9th level party meeds a group of 1st level kobolds. Wizard uses fireball and hits...

I keep hearing comments like "I could do this in 3E why cant I do this under 4E" or "3E did this much better, why doesnt 4E does it like 3E". Time after time same comments, if thats the case why change to play 4E if 3E did all of that and more? You should play whatever you want to play just...

The 9th level daily you mentioned can technically kill 8 kobold minions. At level 30 that same 9th level daily could kill 8 Balor minions. Meanwhile the badass clearly defined villain could take many more rounds to kill.

Seem to me a lot of the major claims against 4E are people asking it to play like 3E. Can't you realize this is a new edition that plays differently? If you want a game that plays like 3E, stay playing 3E. If you want a different take on D&D then play 4E or anyother fantasy game that is not 3E.

And for this you use minions not normal monsters. also, goblins/kobolds never been joke monsters at level 1-3, you never had a TPK from kobolds or goblins in earlier editions before?

I suggest you just sit down with your DM and try to explain to him the narrativist aproach. Heck you could just DM a 1 shot adventure( or just run a mock combat) and exploit all those narrative opportunities as an example to him. If that doesn't work and you still want to play with him as a DM...

Okay so lets forget about the GSL , how about using another system ( SIAF or even the new Dragon Age system)?