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I would recognize that both are a grind and not a valuable use of table time. I also think the system has 2 impacts on that experience: the amount of grind per level disparity, the amount of control the player has to reduce their grind. In the Gates of Mordor examples, what's not handled is...

I ran the sandbox way, and players visiting areas above their level were strongly hinted at. The troll living in the nearby cave was always there from level 1, and I felt that increased the immersion of my games. Breaking into a castle is something that happens during low level campaigns...

The book has a simple method where a gm thinks a level of training is recommended to succeed (table 10-4) or a DC by level of challenge (10-5), which I suspect 95% of GMs will follow flatly and present a level X party with Level X skill challenges. My society Gm did. I prefer a system where a...

I liked the crunch meet fluff system of 3.P. I understand the complaints about the number of options, but the open websites provided me plenty of ways to search for thematic options. Pf2 followed the same trend that kept my groups away from 5e for such a long time. My decisions as a player...