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K I'm out. I disagree with every single word you just said, but I don't know how to engage with someone who is obviously experiences the game and gaming in such a different reality to me.

But you can't be on a quest to avenge the death of your brother and carry out his life's work if he's retired, not dead.

Right, now we get to the meat of it. If that's your frame of reference, I mostly agree. I just think that's bad. I'd say that STR builds are presented as something that is viable, but through a confluence of non obvious mechanics it turns out to be a subpar choice. The text of the rules says...

Sure, if that's a satisfying and engaging gameplay experience for everyone. I don't see how it would be the best option, but if it came down to it and I would Leeroy Jenkins my character in to the next room snd come back as his nearly identical twin brother.

It's as optimal as you get with a melee fighter - with the understanding that fighters and melee re an unoptimised in general because 5e mechanics are hostile to builds melee and STR builds. Plus just because it optimises for a different pillar of gameplay that you do, doesn't mean it's bad or...

I disagree that the choices are comparable. Taking PAM/GWM is, if not truly optimal, a first order optimal build. 9 times out of 10 it (or its brother SS/XBE) is probably the correct decision if you're building a straight fighter for damage. It's clearly presented as something the game thinks...

The point about lock in is that the Wizard can always get counterspell tomorrow, or at the latest next level. The PAM/GWM can never un-get those feats.

Kinda crazy how a point that "some martial/fighter class features cause lock in to certain weapon types" got wilfully misinterpreted to "If I dOnT gIvE mY wIzArD A StAfF oF PoWeR aT lEvEl OnE Am I bad Dm!?". You guys are ridiculous

Maybe I wasn't clear, but I was talking specifically about Duelling + PAM spear. Base fighter with Spear as Str16 is doing D6+5 once per turn. Adding PAM you're doing (D6+5) +(D4+5) +often another (D6+5). For very low investment it's a solid DPS and tank in the early game. I'm under no...

Is your argument really "if you gimp yourself so much that everything is bad, the bad options look comparatively better?"

That doesn't contradict what I said... I didn't say pam was the best, but it was at its best, because proportionally its giving the most extra attacks. Even so it doesnt end up much behind twf, duelling giving a good damage bonus on your butt attacks, and its ahead if you can pull off the...

Honestly PAM and GWM are at the most powerful in the early game. Even at lv4, it provides a consistent use of bonus action AND a relatively reliable reaction, for +100-200% damage. Dueling PAM is legit. Even better, it starts letting you have a fun turn early on. Instead of "I hit it with my...

I know there are some great caster feats that are more powerful than others. That's not in dispute and isn't anywhere related to what I was The issue is that the martial feats cause lock-in. You spend a portion of your characters power budget on a feat, you expect it to be useful for the rest of...

I can't remember what the specific term for it is, but there's a concept in game design where you put the pieces in front of the player and so long as they have a cursory understanding of the mechanics, the synergies and intended gameplay are obvious. You are playing a fighter, your class...

The discussion about magic items is kind of funny, because in a lot of other threads about Martial balance a common refrain is that you're supposed to be showering your martial characters with extra magic items to let them keep pace with casters.

I don't know, you were the one that phrased it "players getting exactly what they want all the time". Theres a middle ground of "giving players the tools they need to make their character concept work at appropriate points in the campaign". I suppose there's a few other options. Slavish...

If the DM is getting fun out of negating their characters abilities then they should stop doing that and go work on themselves as a person. I think it's fine and probably necessary to have this conversation with your players in Session zero. Clarify that you're doing purely random loot, or...

You phrase it like that, I phrase it as "DM should work with players to honour their character concepts and ensure everyone has fun."

For one, I don't think it's a 'gamble'. It's something that the game design clearly intends for fighters especially to do. If the game traps you for doing something it encourages, it's bad game design. It's also a problem that doesn't exist for casters. There's no "wand master" feat. The...

TBH I count this as a failing with 5e. Martials are encouraged to specialise in to particular weapons with Feat fighting styles and even basic ability scores, but 5e provides no RAW way to spec out of Feats, and changing fighting style is only available at ASI levels as an optional rule. This...