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Ok, after rereading your statement I replied to in light of this I think we might be at least close in agreement. I read it as a claim of inability to change perspective, which I think is false. If it however was meant as a description related to a prefered way to handle certain matters of...

Talking about misdiagnosis, I think this one is also very likely fitting that term. It is true that integrity is critically important to both "camps". It is also true that the means for maintaining that integrity is very different for both "camps". I think you might take a bit to lightly on the...

I thought part of the drive in BW was that the players were also responsible for bringing their beliefs into play? That is, it is good if the GM helps, but if the GM is not helpful the players still can work to make the tings the GM narrate into something that affects their beliefs (and hence...

It make sense to be here as one of the main parts of the conversation is players not used to other games than D&D :) I think this thread would have been quite dead if there had only been people having experience in narrative games participating.

I feel like the sense of chaos here fits extremely well with the thread title ;) That said, I actually feel like this thread keep making new sprouts, that are relatively short lived, but do revolve around a common theme of the possible powers GMs and players can (not should) wield over various...

This was what kicked off my exchange with pemerton: A question here is - if the evil overlord is somehow tied to a character's belief, would it be acceptable to use the potential connection between the overlord outlined here as a justification for framing a scene with the beggars? In that case...

Wait, what? Are you saying a GM is not supposed to frame a scene with elements the players can decide if they want to interact with immediately or not? That sound awfully close to a kind of railroad to me. But moving on ... Wait, what? Are you saying a narrative game requires the players to...

You seem to be side stepping the question by adding the assumption that there is an incompetent GM at play. That the abandoned farms are not relevant to the characters. I see no reason you should make that assumption, as I indeed specified they made a note of it to investigate later. Nothing I...

Yes, I sensed myself that this question was unclear when I wrote it. After sleeping on it I found a more concrete example of what I was thinking about, that seem relatively likely. Imagine the characters traveling to town. The GM narates how they are passing several farms that is abandoned. The...

I assume we can add that this "prep" is in a narrative game not "set in stone"? That is, if the DM hasn't shared the idea that these beggars are from the farmland a player might for instance go "Hey, those beggars is the crew of the circus in the city I grew up! I wonder what bad things happened...

As outlined in my post #2106 in this thread, the GMs is to my knowledge free to effectively block any intent if they find it not making sense. It is just very rarely used, as players tend to be reasonable. Also the GMs are asked to be very accepting of player input.

Thank you! You point to some critical flaws in my communication. I make it seem like players picked up the game, found a way to use it that it was not intended for, and hence we have a gang of people playing the game in a completely unintended way, with the players having more power than ever...

I don't have that much experience with BW. I have simply read the nave and the spokes of the rules. I think I can give a bit simplified version. From a D&D perspective there are at first glance not much fancy going on. GM describes scenes, then players describe what they are doing. When the GM...

I can step in here. The consistency, direction and richness of a single vision. Let me exemplify with the last full campaign I played with as a player. The GM pitch was that we were playing in a country at war, and would start out having been forcefully drafted. I based on this prompt created...

As one of those that has very heavily tried to get @pemerton to use a different word I can say that for me it is exactly because I agree with his message. I think the concept he is pointing to as important for his enjoyment of the game is likely having wider applicability, and is valuable to...

I feel like we are actually making progress here! It seem like you accept I might have a basic understanding of your position, and I start sensing an outline on how you can have arrived at "railroading" as a suitable word for the concept you try to express. The key issue here is your "The...

At first glance, this seem like a valid defence. However there is one important distinction that I think make it fall appart. The usefulness of "all men" was in determining who had a certain set of rights. Changing the contents of all men did not change this usefullness. It is per today...

This is a question I have had a lot of introspection around, so I could have given a really long answer. But to try to keep things in what I gather to be the overall spirit of this thread I will try to be brief. I have not found any game that appear designed specifically to promote the kind of...

Yes, I am keenly aware this is what you are calling a railroad. And it is excactly calling this a railroad we in this thread is trying to tell you is a bad habit. We try to help you getting easier understood, and not offend people that you don't intend to offend. Noone is having an issue with...

By the RPG community. Please make a google search of railroading, and show me any source not written by you describing a sandbox as a railroad. I can find numerous examples of people explicitely contrasting a sandbox with a railroad, even pointing to sandbox as the only obvious counterexample to...