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I think this is largely a 'adventure game' or 'wargame rpg' issue. TPK in Monster Hearts or Apocalypse Keys or Outgunned is baked deeply and highly obvious to all players and plot. It's like... this is the game and death is part of things. Mork Borg may bridge that with its Apocalypse roll...

in their defense... These are people who were the same age as Anakin when they watched that movie, between ages 7 and 9. So for them, Star Wars was no more deep or cultural than power rangers. They saw characters that they liked, and they did funny things, and they were children entertained by...

Oh worse... They love gungans so they picked up one of their own and now have her as a permanent crew of the ship I now have to roleplay as a gungan O.o

I have to say, for me... this is a THING :) I have to beg my players to let me run something else, otherwise they just want to go back to Star Wars. again and again... We spent 4 moths of gaming just messing around on Naboo :P

There are so many... It does help to step away from D&D, OSR, or adjacent, as all of those are not really tryin to solve the no-fun combat and no-result failed rolls stuff. Draw Steel does a good job at making minis combat more action packed, and reduce the amount of dud/nothing rolls...

Since you took everything I said amazingly wrong... I will respond to the one salient conversation point you made. To be clear = It's not "PBTA is only supposed to be way X". It's "This implementation of PBTA struggles and here are some reasons why". There are things that make any given...

I talked a lot with Jason as he set aside Freebooters (and I made a few playbooks for him), and moved on to Stonetop. I think it was the right choice but I think it's really wrong to call it ANYTHING like D&D. It's just not. Not 4e, not whatever. Stonetop is a worldbuilding game zoomed...

Now we are cooking with cat grease! I like this post! I will add my 2c = oWoD was a format and style of lore that was engrossing and to a smaller degree a touch of the unreliable narrator. It was telling you about its world, and offering to let you come play in it. nWoD lore was a...

Considering none of my posted were quoting you, you can assume I am not referring to you. I was talking more to the worries some folks have that the attempt to add some amount or purpose of lore to a game, especially races = that is its not qualitative. I state over and over that there is...

I think you entirely misread my post. Like, entirely. ...Considering your reply is the same point I was also making. I think, in part, we are in agreement, you are just wording it different. Which is fine. I am interested in what makes folks not like lore. I am also interested in hearing...

I can only speak for what I get out of the thread, so to answer your question I would say = This thread isn't about and for that person answer type. That is to say, the topic of the thread is "What makes setting lore "actually matter" to the players?" And if the person answers this with...

Sure! but also not fully. I mean, we are talking about a 'world' and entire 'setting'. So it is 100% fair to ask "how did this world get to to be this way." That is part of the Lore. We are not asking the 'purpose of life', but we are asking the lore on 'how life got to...' frog people and...

I want to add to this as a bit of a digression, because.. reasons. :P I ran a game of Forgotten Realms where there was some reason for Drow. Subterranean, pitch black, shorter than normal, and matriarchal and a few other things. So, instead of burying my players in lore to read, or history...

Well.... let's keep going with this line of thought, because it has some points that can be discussed. Starting with "aesthetics" which you seem to agree, "just amounts to humans doing cosplay.".... "I agree that these things aren't necessarily "lore," So... let's dig into why someone might...

Here is where the thread first unravels for me (and I think @innerdude ) as well. That's not lore. What you just described is a kind of anthropomorphisation just in reverse. You are asking how the human behaves kinda catty... not lore. not purposeful. just a windowdressing on a human...

I am also not talking about novels :P Two of those do not have ttrpg games. And while Discworld does, its far far from standard adventurer roleplay, so it does not apply to my conversation at all.

Indeed! As a way of explaining my purpose there = there was a thread that asked about what game you could play for 60 sessions or such. And my reasoning for 'never want to play or see D&D/Pathfinder/Daggerheart/etc etc" ever again = was the reasons I give above. I was just giving reason...

Lot's of interesting comments here... my thoughts are now scattered in different directions since each makes sense in its own way. Here are some of my take-aways from what folks have mentioned = these are ideas below on how starting with "purpose, stakes, and limitation" can apply to all...

OMG! Someone else knows of Freebooters on the Frontier! yay!!! That is such a masterclass game! Sorry for aside, just gushing :P

For me (trying to explain my own insanity here, lol) , and this is just my own thoughts of why Forgotten Realms/Golarion very much made matters worse.... Let's look at the Tengu. There is absolutely nothing about their lore that could not be swapped out with humans from country X. The fact...