10' Range Increment = -2 or AOO

[Quidam]

Just recently noticed that, according to the rules, you can't throw a dagger witout either getting an AOO or a -2 penalty. You only don't take a penalty if the target is closer than the range increment, and the only thing closer than 10' is 5', which means you'll be taking an AOO.

I suppose this isn't really a rules question, per se, as I double and triple checked and them's the rules. I guess it's more of a rules bitch and a heads up to anyone who was under the same mistaken impression I was.

Anyone play dagger or axe throwers find a way around this? IMC we're zeroing it to be <= RI is no penalty instead of < RI. Otherwise weapons with RI's of 10' just don't make sense.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Well, if you check the rules for Cover and Concealment, you'll find that ranged attacks in 3.5 are made from a corner of your square, not the centre of your square. And the distance from the corner of your square to the centre of a square two-squares-away is slightly over 7 feet... so the range is less than 10 feet, but you're further than 5 feet away and thus don't provoke an AoO from someone with 5' reach.

-Hyp.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

ie

A: dagger-throwing hero
X: blood-thirsty half-fiend, half-artichoke kobold

AX -> AoO
A_X -> OK
A__X -> -2 to hit

AR

 

[Legildur]

What's the matter Hyp? Having a slow day in the land of the long white cloud and trying to stir the pot a little to relieve the boredom? ;-)

PHB p114 under 'Range Increment' and similarly p134 under 'Range Penalty':

Any attack at less than this distance is not penalized for range, etc

PHB p147 under 'Measuring Distance':

when measuring distance, the first diagonal counts as 1 square, the second counts as 2 squares,....

PHB p149 under 'Large, Huge, Gargantuan, and Colossal Creatures' talking about natural reach attacking creatures up to 2 squares away:

This is an exception to the rule that 2 squares of diagonal distance is measured as 15 feet.

The rules you referenced only apply to dtermining whether your target has cover from a ranged attack, not for measuring distance.

So, a dagger thrower making a ranged attack along 2 diagonals is at range 15 feet and subject to a -2 range penalty.

Only way to beat it (AOO and range penalty in most circumstances) in core rules is for the opponent to not be threatening the thrower, or take the Precise Shot and Far Shot feats and increase your range increment to 15ft (so you can throw 2 squares without penalty except where it involves 2 diagonals).

edit: quotes looked untidy