10 years was too long.

By all rights, a new edition should never be necessary.

Of course, it's not reasonable to believe any one rules set will be perfect and that there won't be room for improvement. No set of rules will ever be perfect and there will always be room for improvement.

For my part, I believe 3.5 was, over-all, an improvement. It has its holes to be sure, but it fixed some things, like with the bard, ranger and how monsters work all around.

But I still think it was too soon. The chances were minor for the most part and seemed namely to fix niggling little things. The differences weren't big enough to warrant dropping nearly $100.

The same thing goes for any 'incremental' claptrap. The progression from 3.0 to 3.5 to 3.75 to 4.0 might make things fairly similarly from one increment to the next, but if the final product is distanced enough from the initial one, then just bother all with the increments. Give me the drastic change, instead of leaving me with this 3.5 supplement here, this 4.0 supplement there and this other 3.0 supplement that, while similar to the nearest increment, or possibly nearest two, is still effectively too drastic a change from the books furthest away from it.

I'd rather go full out for the Core books and its supplements 10 years from now then keep buying essentially the same Core books every four years and its accompanying supplements. A little change here, a little change there, makes for a tangle; one increment to the next will easily transition, but the furthest increments won't. So effectively, the rules are just as drastically changed from 3rd to 4th, only now some few hundred dollars have been wasted on the increments.

Time really shouldn't be the factor for when a new edition is due. A new edition should roll around when there's enough change to warrant one. It could be 10 years; it could be 4. I don't think 3.5 was due to come out yet. Natch; make that, never was. Give me 4th edition. Incremental revisions seem nothing more than, as others have put it, money grabbing sucker punching.
 

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woodelf said:
Isn't that a point in Chaosium's favor? That there's really no need to upgrade, even when a new edition *does* come out? That i could probably sit down with my copy of CoC 3rd in a game run with CoC 6th, and i'd never know the difference?
Yeah, so obviously it's worth an entire new edition number. Look around - the RPG community doesn't work like that. A new edition means a rules overhaul. Except, apparently, to chaosium.

And it's not like their system couldn't do with one.
You can't even do that with D&D3E and D&D3.5E.

True. You'll know that you're playing a newer version of the system, because a lot of things will work better. But you won't need to change anything to update. You can run 3e adventures with 3.5e rules or vice versa for the most part, unless you're really anal about it.
 

KingOfChaos said:
I have a problem with it because I don't have money coming out of my nether regions on command. These books are expensive...much more expensive than anything Chaosium puts out, so I care not if they put out a new rules system every four or five years. However, when I have to spend 150 dollars every four years for just the BARE BONES rules of a RPG system, that's a bit much.
Frankly you're talking rubbish here. The bare bones of the system are free, remember? Even if you do think that it's essential to have a bound book to play with, you still only really need the players handbook and DMG - and that's still more than just the bare bones of an rpg system. I don't think bare bones would even include the DMG. I think if you're talking bare bones, then you just need the PHB, and that's it. I'm damn sure I could run a game using nothing more. You can certainly play a game with nothing else.
 

oD&D was "bare bones". D&D 3e is anything but. The amount of useful information in those books is staggering. I'm sure that most people never progress past the core books, because they don't have to.

For those people, the actual 'current' edition of the game is irrelevant. Current edition only counts for people who buy supplements (or play in a lot of RPGA games).

I upgraded to 3.5e as soon as it came out. I've now got all four of the Complete books. In theory, I could have remained with the 3e builder books, but I didn't. Why not? Because I believe them to be inferior in their mastery of the rules to the Complete series. This is not to say that the Complete series is perfect, but I find them far, far better than their counterparts from 3e.

OTOH, I will happily still use my Monster Manual II, Stronghold Builder's Guide and some other 3e books in my 3.5e campaign because the differences are not significant enough to worry about.

Cheers!
 

Wraith Form said:
Since CoC is dear to my heart, I'll comment that Chaosium usually produces their one, single, lone, CoC core rulebook within a reasonable price range....spending an additional $25 - $30 every three or four years (for that one book) isn't a big deal. When you have three core rulebooks, each costing $30 or more (partially because they're hardcover)....well, yeah, let's wait a few more years before WotC decides to squeeze out a new revision. Either that, or make it a softcover and drop the price by $10 - $15 per book. If that was the case, I'd be less reluctant to buy.

How about a single book like D20 Modern? I used to think D&D couldn't be done in one book but heck, the RC is one book and has EVERYTHING you need to play for years and years!

Jason
 

I don't know who said it (too lazy to go back and look :P). But we will see a 4th ed. in less than 10 years. Why? Look how fast WotC puts out new books. How much longer before WotC goes "gee the well is dry", I mean how many complete class,race,weather,etc books can you put out? My guess is we'll start hearing about a 4th edition in the next year (2006), maybe 2007. Is it too short? Well the older I get the faster time seems to go. Two years doesn't seem to take that long. My son was born in 2000, that didn't seem to be that long ago, (5 years in July). I think the real question here is what's your preception?
 

Gundark said:
I don't know who said it (too lazy to go back and look :P). But we will see a 4th ed. in less than 10 years. Why? Look how fast WotC puts out new books.
Huh? Correct me if I'm wrong, but they don't put out as much products as TSR.
 

Ranger REG said:
Huh? Correct me if I'm wrong, but they don't put out as much products as TSR.
No my point was that there are so many splat books that you can put out before you just get a little burned out. WotC does put out a lot of books in the year. I think that once they finish with these "races" and "terrain" books there really won't be that much more to do with "basic" D&D. Yes they can always do more FR/Eberron stuff but IMO the basic line will be kinda done.
 

Gundark said:
No my point was that there are so many splat books that you can put out before you just get a little burned out. WotC does put out a lot of books in the year. I think that once they finish with these "races" and "terrain" books there really won't be that much more to do with "basic" D&D. Yes they can always do more FR/Eberron stuff but IMO the basic line will be kinda done.

They may surprise us.

I've already been surprised by Weapons of Legacy and Battlefield Adventures, each the first in new series of supplements.

It is worth noting that I don't own any of the ecology books (Draconomicon, Libris Mortis), nor any of the Forgotten Realms books. I own all the Eberron books and adventures so far, though... the point being, that Wizards have decided upon series of books, and it seems to be working very well.

"Races of Eberron" is indeed the fourth in the "Races" series.

Hopefully we might see some more adventures before the year is out.

Cheers!
 

BelenUmeria said:
Well, if I had to pick an edition where I had the most fun gaming, then it would have to be 2e. 3e is fine. I enjoy it, but it is not as fun. It is consistent, but not as fun. There is just too much information, too many rules, far too many situational rules and way too many rules to stack onto other rules.

I'm with you. I enjoyed myself most with 2e. In a way, I liked that the different subsystems were different. It gave them each a different feel and made it seem more ignorable if you wanted.

I never played 1e, though, so I might have liked that even better.

I have played OD&D. As a plyer, I think it's the best, as a DM I like AD&D.
 

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