$125,000 in fines for D&D pirates? Help me do the math...

[Storm Raven]

Who needs to. It's H2SO4.

That was JRRNeiklot's quote you are responding to, not mine.

 

[Cadfan]

If the settlement is based on expected statutory damages from trial that are themselves Conressionally designed to punish infringers and send a message to other infringers doesn't it necessarily follow that the settlement reflects the decision to punish infringers and send a message to other infringers?

Read back through the thread. People aren't saying what you think they're saying.

Earlier people were suggesting that the particular damages were set high because someone decided that these particular defendants should be mounted on pikes as a warning to others.

That is incorrect on multiple levels, and I was simply addressing that fact. These defendants are not being punished worse than normal in order to "send a message." They are being subjected to standard, run of the mill, generally applicable law and procedure that covers everyone.

Yes, those rules include an intention to create a deterrant effect, and yes, WotC's choice to litigate was probably motivated by a desire to deter.

But no, the damages in this case are not being magnified in order to "send a message." That is what people were discussing, and that is what I was addressing.

 

[Cadfan]

It is amazing how many people drop right into the labor theory of value isn't it?

Or worse, cost of production theory of value.

Its kind of weird to me that debates about copyright law seem to always boil down to people asserting that they're doing no harm under a cost of production theory of value, and other people asserting that they are doing harm under a labor theory of value.

 

[S'mon]

What I'm wondering is, do the defendants actually pay these very large fines they've agreed to? Do they really have this kind of money? Did they sign a confidential agreement under which WoTC promises not to enforce if they don't do it again?

 

[mudbunny]

Who needs to. It's H2SO4.

Nope, it's phosphoric acid - H3PO4

 

[Voadam]

Read back through the thread. People aren't saying what you think they're saying.

Earlier people were suggesting that the particular damages were set high because someone decided that these particular defendants should be mounted on pikes as a warning to others.

That is incorrect on multiple levels, and I was simply addressing that fact. These defendants are not being punished worse than normal in order to "send a message." They are being subjected to standard, run of the mill, generally applicable law and procedure that covers everyone.

Yes, those rules include an intention to create a deterrant effect, and yes, WotC's choice to litigate was probably motivated by a desire to deter.

But no, the damages in this case are not being magnified in order to "send a message." That is what people were discussing, and that is what I was addressing.

I don't see your distinction.

WotC caught these individuals uploading copywrite stuff. WotC chose to civilly prosecute these individuals for the large statutory damages available under the law. WotC chose to take these individuals and mount them on large statutory damage pikes as a warning to others as the law allows them to do. As a standard, run of the mill generally applicable law covering everyone, anyone who infringes can be subject to high damages, set on a pike, and made a warning to others. WotC did so.

The message to me looks clear from both Congress and WotC here.

Prosecuting to the fullest extent of the law does not seem inconsistent with choosing to be harsh to punish and deter.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Most people are unlikely to make only $10 an hour for the bulk of their adult lives. It is possible, but not common.

well I can't talk for everyone, at the age of 30 with the youngest player I know is 22, and the oldest in his 60's. and I have seen a large swath of pays.

I know 3 people who make LESS then 10$ an hour

I myself went from $11 an hour up to $19 an hour, then that lead to me being told that my whole depatment could be done for 1/2 the cost in Texas (I live in CT)...in the 2+ years since then I have taken many temp jobs at 10-11$ per hour.

The most I have seen is 80,000 a year salarey. so well I am sure there are LOTS of people who make more, there are also atleast a good number that make that or less.

 

[Hadrian the Builder]

Whether you make $50,000 (approx. average income in US) / year ($26/hour) or 100,000/year, a judgement of $125,000 is alot of money to pay out and will probably take most people many years to pay off. That's disproportionate to the infraction.

 

[Cadfan]

I don't see your distinction.

[snip]

Prosecuting to the fullest extent of the law does not seem inconsistent with choosing to be harsh to punish and deter.

Its not. Again, the issue is that some people thought that these specific individuals were penalized with greater damages than those given to normal infringers because someone decided to single them out in order to send a message to other potential infringers. That is incorrect.

That's all I'm saying. Obviously damages greater than recompense are intended to deter, and deterrence can be rhetorically described as "sending a message," although its worth noting that this is a rhetorical move that obtains its influence by borrowing from issues not invoked in this case.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

The legal question isn't how many lost sales there were, it's how many violations there were. That's what determines how much the fine (when it goes to court) or likely settlement is determined to be.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought the settlement was based on (perceived) lost revenue.