D&D (2024) 13 Attacks a Round the Most You Can Get?

[ThrorII]

So 14 attacks against opponents with less than 2 HD?

First, B/X doesn't have multiple attacks for fighters against 1HD creatures, that is OD&D (AD&D does 1 attack per level against monsters with 1-1HD or less.

Second, even when using the OD&D rule of 1 attack per level for monsters of 1HD or less, there are several limiting factors. (a) All monsters must be 1HD or less; (b) Only 1 attack against each of those 1HD monsters. Since no movement is allowed, how many monsters can you fit into a 1" (10 foot) square with that fighter? If using B/X 5-foot squares, that is a maximum of 8 1HD monsters.

So 14 attacks against opponents with less than 2 HD?

 

[Seramus]

First, B/X doesn't have multiple attacks for fighters against 1HD creatures, that is OD&D (AD&D does 1 attack per level against monsters with 1-1HD or less.

You know what? You're absolutely right! It's such a popular rule for B/X tables to import, I forgot it was not actually native to B/X.

how many monsters can you fit into a 1" (10 foot) square with that fighter? If using B/X 5-foot squares, that is a maximum of 8 1HD monsters.

26 under the right conditions, but 17 isn't hard if you're getting swarmed by bats for instance.

 

[CleverNickName]

This thread is about whiteboarding rather than actual play.
It requires enemies to be static and do nothing, ever

You say that, but we just finished a campaign that took the characters all the way from 1st level to 20th level and I've seen it in actual play. Getting to make 10+ attacks on every turn was the standard modus operandi for our fighter, for over a year.

 

[GreyLord]

This must be 5.5?? (it is labeled 2024)

Because in 5e I swore you only get 1 more attack from Surge, and only one bonus action per round.

Did they do away with these restrictions in 5.5/2024? Because if they did, that's a pretty huge change!

 

[GreyLord]

First, B/X doesn't have multiple attacks for fighters against 1HD creatures, that is OD&D (AD&D does 1 attack per level against monsters with 1-1HD or less.

Second, even when using the OD&D rule of 1 attack per level for monsters of 1HD or less, there are several limiting factors. (a) All monsters must be 1HD or less; (b) Only 1 attack against each of those 1HD monsters. Since no movement is allowed, how many monsters can you fit into a 1" (10 foot) square with that fighter? If using B/X 5-foot squares, that is a maximum of 8 1HD monsters.

B/X has rules for multiple attacks for fighters.

I think most would consider it optional though. In rules for extending the game beyond what is listed in the Expert rules, it says for fighters (saying this off the top of my head, I'm not reading it right now, so I don't have it in front of me) that after you hit level 15 you get another attack and for every 5 levels over 15 you get an extra attack up to a maximum of 4 attacks.

Edit: I think if one got a Ring of Haste, they may possibly be able to increase that maximum to 8 attacks??? Characters would be pretty high level for this though.

Thats just normal attacks though, nothing about it needing to be 1hd creatures.

Not sure why this is pertinent though.

 

[tetrasodium]

This thread is about whiteboarding rather than actual play.
It requires enemies to be static and do nothing, ever

It was already mentioned by @CleverNickName but I'm going to take it a step further on why these aren't just white boarding problems because most on my 5e games have gone into the low to mid teens. That might put me outside the average, but it very much runs 5e through the acid test and exposed the deep cracks that result.

In past editions players were either largely denied extreme CharOp for various reasons∆ needed to clear significant hurdles just to qualify for extreme CharOp and those hurdles just got harder to clear the further they went with CharOp. 5e didn't just lower the hurdles, it removed the very idea and took quite a few steps to ensure that players could walk up to the table with a fairly decent baseline PC with no obvious crippling flaws to serve as warning signs for impending CharOp on a sleeper that suddenly explodes in power with a single level & might do so on more than one occasion.

Because the bar is set so low it becomes very difficult for the GM to police or reign in these sleeper builds without also coming off like comic book guy or some other negative stereotype controlling gm. Even if the gm notices and tries to put their foot down they are still faced with a system that almost encourages the player to declare total coincidence and just jump to a slightly different but still very broken build. Yes some of those things were always technically possible with sleeper builds to lesser degrees, but magic items expectations/requirements/churn always left the gm with an overriding crowbar they could use to wrench the dial back a bit or divert from hyperfocused power to still very focused but molded into something wider and less over the top... Magic items either make it worse or lack the mechanical hooks needed to divert narrowly focused apex power towards a broader direction.

∆ not really an option early on or 4e's lack of traditional mukticlassing as an option in favor of umm... Hybrid classes(?) as the option

 

[I'm A Banana]

Seems legit!

So a sufficiently high level fighter. GWM.

4 attacks a round.
Action surge 8.
Cleave 9

So far, pretty standard.

Hew 10

A little situational, maybe, but with 9 attacks, getting a crit is only a matter of time, really, hahaha.

Haste 11

Relies a bit on an external force, but extremely common tactic.

Reaction attack 12

Same - relies a bit on some help or some foolish monsters, but yeah.

Reaction attack cleave 13.

Legit, though one of the areas where I have some quibbles with the system. I feel like "1/turn" options really push this kind of optimization, where folks really want to drive into getting their 1/turn effects off multiple times per round (sneak attack suffers a similar issue). It's a fair cop, but idk why we can't just limit effects to 1/round sometimes, either.

Asking for a friend.

 

[Azzy]

This must be 5.5?? (it is labeled 2024)

Because in 5e I swore you only get 1 more attack from Surge, and only one bonus action per round.

No, Action Surge, in 2014, gives you an additional Action. If you can make multiple attacks as part of a normal Attack Action, you would also be able to do so with the additional Action granted by Action Surge. So, it essentially doubles the number of attacks you can make.

 

[GreyLord]

No, Action Surge, in 2014, gives you an additional Action. If you can make multiple attacks as part of a normal Attack Action, you would also be able to do so with the additional Action granted by Action Surge. So, it essentially doubles the number of attacks you can make.

You are correct, but it's only one additional action. The fighter already TOOK the multiple attack action, therefore they cannot use it again in the same round. It specifies only that you can take it when you take THE...not A...attack action.

Do we have something that clarifies that you can use the Action surge to give you that many attacks, or is this personal interpretations that it allows one to use Action Surge to take the Multiple Attacks ability as an Attack Action multiple times in a round?

My interpretation was always you can take multiple attacks and then you can use the Action surge for another attack (but not the multiple attack ability) as you have already used the multiple attack ability that round...and it is usage of THE Attack action, not An attack action.

Action Surge is on top of your regular action (which Multiple attack abilities fall under, whereas Action Surge is not one of the regular action you can take), and specifics it is one additional action...but does not specify.

It's an interesting interpretation, but it doubles the fighter's abilities quite immensely if you say it doubles their multiple attack action (which as I interpreted, you can only use once a round). If it were differently, then they should have defined that you can combine the two abilities within the descriptions (as they are both part of the default fighter) or clarified that you can combine these two things. They don't, and do not even indicate that these two items can be combined in such a way.

I know it's a popular interpretation...BUT...if this were so, then the multiple attack action should specify that you can do this. Otherwise it's basically doing what they (those who made 5e) said they wouldn't which is trying to make it a system mastery thing.

I'd like something official that specifies that it works this way, because as the fighter is written, it indicates nothing of the sort...and in fact sort of invalidates how the multiple attacks ability is written (because at the point you gain a second attack it should therefore specify that this actually means you get 4 attacks when using the action surge...not merely the two attacks).

If it were for a specific archetype, that would be one thing, but as they are BOTH default fighter abilities, I think it's more of a personal interpretation that's gotten popular to abuse, rather than official (though if you have an official Sage ruling or something like that, I'd love to see it).

PS: In answer to the question, if we are going to abuse Action Surge as suggested in this thread, the maximum number of attacks I've seen calculated is 1024. (PS: and no, this is not a joke. I've also seen someone hypothesize that they could at least double that with a specific weapon to 2048 attacks, though I haven't actually checked that one. These, of course, rely on abusing action surge as suggested, but they seem to work out if we are going that route).

 

[Azzy]

You are correct, but it's only one additional action. The fighter already TOOK the multiple attack action, therefore they cannot use it again in the same round. It specifies only that you can take it when you take THE...not A...attack action.

Action Surge
Starting at 2nd level, you can push yourself beyond your normal limits for a moment. On your turn, you can take one additional action on top of your regular action and a possible bonus action.

Once you use this feature, you must finish a short or long rest before you can use it again. Starting at 17th level, you can use it twice before a rest, but only once on the same turn.

Extra Attack
Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.

The number of attacks increases to three when you reach 11th level in this class and to four when you reach 20th level in this class.

There is no multiple attack action nor is there a limit on using the extra attack except it must be on the fighter's turn. You get the extra attack whenever take an attack action, and with action surge you gain a second action which allows you to take a second attack action and all that entails.