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16 More Details About Theros
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<blockquote data-quote="Dungeonosophy" data-source="post: 7933559" data-attributes="member: 6688049"><p>Thanks for responding Ashrym.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, in Modern Greek, <em>várdos</em> refers to a "bard", but that word is tied to Celtic (non-Greek) culture. It was borrowed into late (post-Classical, Hellenistic) Ancient Greek from the Proto-Celtic language, and referred to Celtic barbarian bards. But my understanding is that the world of Theros is "all Greek."</p><p></p><p>That's also why I didn't translate "College" as <em>kollegio</em>--because that's a later borrowing from Latin, not really a native/ancient Greek term.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Right, those are pretty good too. I looked them up, and see...</p><p></p><p><em>Aiodos</em> mean 'singer', and is the oldest term, dating to the Homeric age. This one is very good, because of its ancientness and genericity.</p><p></p><p>A <em>Rhapsode</em> is a later term which speficially refers to a a performer of epic poetry. It's not as generic as <em>aiodos.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Citharode</em> refers specifically to a musician who plays a cithara.</p><p></p><p>So of these, I think <em>Aiodos</em> is the best. I went with the more generic "musician", because presumably many different 5E bardic colleges and types of bards, playing many different kinds of ancient Greek instruments, with voice or without, are going to be 'legal/recommended/converted' to Theros.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's interesting to see how official 5E foreign language translations deal with D&D terminology. As far as I know, sometimes they strive for cognates, other times they will go with a native word which is unrelated to the English term. But in this case we're not just doing a translation into Modern Greek -- if we were, then we'd definitely go with words like Vardos and Paladínos. For the Theros book, we're translating into Ancient Greek. There were no "bards" in Greek culture, and no "paladins" until Carolingian French myths were translated into Greek in medieval times. And so ideally, for an Ancient Greek setting such D&D terms would be represented by their closest ancient analogue. So <em>Hippótēs </em>"knight, horseman, heroic champion" instead of <em>Paladínos. </em>And <em>Aiodos</em> or <em>Mousikos </em>instead of <em>Vardos</em>.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah but all the D&D class names are 'abstracted / iconic' names which don't necessarily encompass all the non-heroic characters who have a similar profession. There people are who fight who aren't Fighters. There are acolytes and priests (and thus, 'clerics') who aren't Clerics, there are wise-men who aren't Wizards, and there are Celtic musicians and poets (and thus 'bards') who aren't Bards. Any number of synonyms could've been chosen as the D&D class name. It's just that by the Gygax's (and other D&D designers') whim, we have 'Bard' instead of, say, Minstrel or Troubadour.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I totally agree. I looked at the Greek-language <a href="https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ορφέας" target="_blank">Wikipedia article on Orpheus</a>, and he is referred to as a 'poet' (poietes) and 'musician' (mousikous) , but not a 'bard' (vardos).</p><p></p><p>"Ορφέας θεωρήθηκε ένας από τους βασικούς ποιητές και μουσικούς της αρχαιότητας..."</p><p>"Orpheus was considered one of the foremost poets and musicians of antiquity..."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dungeonosophy, post: 7933559, member: 6688049"] Thanks for responding Ashrym. Yes, in Modern Greek, [I]várdos[/I] refers to a "bard", but that word is tied to Celtic (non-Greek) culture. It was borrowed into late (post-Classical, Hellenistic) Ancient Greek from the Proto-Celtic language, and referred to Celtic barbarian bards. But my understanding is that the world of Theros is "all Greek." That's also why I didn't translate "College" as [I]kollegio[/I]--because that's a later borrowing from Latin, not really a native/ancient Greek term. Right, those are pretty good too. I looked them up, and see... [I]Aiodos[/I] mean 'singer', and is the oldest term, dating to the Homeric age. This one is very good, because of its ancientness and genericity. A [I]Rhapsode[/I] is a later term which speficially refers to a a performer of epic poetry. It's not as generic as [I]aiodos. Citharode[/I] refers specifically to a musician who plays a cithara. So of these, I think [I]Aiodos[/I] is the best. I went with the more generic "musician", because presumably many different 5E bardic colleges and types of bards, playing many different kinds of ancient Greek instruments, with voice or without, are going to be 'legal/recommended/converted' to Theros. It's interesting to see how official 5E foreign language translations deal with D&D terminology. As far as I know, sometimes they strive for cognates, other times they will go with a native word which is unrelated to the English term. But in this case we're not just doing a translation into Modern Greek -- if we were, then we'd definitely go with words like Vardos and Paladínos. For the Theros book, we're translating into Ancient Greek. There were no "bards" in Greek culture, and no "paladins" until Carolingian French myths were translated into Greek in medieval times. And so ideally, for an Ancient Greek setting such D&D terms would be represented by their closest ancient analogue. So [I]Hippótēs [/I]"knight, horseman, heroic champion" instead of [I]Paladínos. [/I]And [I]Aiodos[/I] or [I]Mousikos [/I]instead of [I]Vardos[/I]. Yeah but all the D&D class names are 'abstracted / iconic' names which don't necessarily encompass all the non-heroic characters who have a similar profession. There people are who fight who aren't Fighters. There are acolytes and priests (and thus, 'clerics') who aren't Clerics, there are wise-men who aren't Wizards, and there are Celtic musicians and poets (and thus 'bards') who aren't Bards. Any number of synonyms could've been chosen as the D&D class name. It's just that by the Gygax's (and other D&D designers') whim, we have 'Bard' instead of, say, Minstrel or Troubadour. I totally agree. I looked at the Greek-language [URL='https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ορφέας']Wikipedia article on Orpheus[/URL], and he is referred to as a 'poet' (poietes) and 'musician' (mousikous) , but not a 'bard' (vardos). "Ορφέας θεωρήθηκε ένας από τους βασικούς ποιητές και μουσικούς της αρχαιότητας..." "Orpheus was considered one of the foremost poets and musicians of antiquity..." [/QUOTE]
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