D&D 5E 2/18/13 L&L column

[Bedrockgames]

So you agree with me then?

I dont know. Depends on your position. I am saying set the default dials close to classic, but include options for raising those things. So a first level character might have max HD +Con bonus. So if you are a fighter with +2 to con, you start at 12, a wizard with +0 to con starts at 4. However you incude starting HP methods 1, 2 and 3 (like methods for rolling ability scores). Method 2 might be add your full con score instead of your con bonus (like it was in 4E if i recall). Method 3 could be everyone starts with auto fifteen hp as a buffer. Bt the key thing is these are all easier to tak on if the default starts lower. I also think the text should be clear about what these decisions will mean for play.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I think starting simple != with a play experience that might as well be a different genre of game.

All i am suggesting is the base style of play resemble the way the game has been played through most of its history. D&D isnt just simulating genres, it is its own genre with its own feel. I a, saying if you want to emulate film or books fine, but because not eveyone does, you need a base that can be built on to support both aproaches. I think they did try your approach with 4E and it is why people like me stopped playing. Some of us liked the way the game played from 1E to 3E, and 4E was a step in a direction we didnt enjoy. If their goal is to win back the lapsed customers, they are going to need to have that classic feel back in the system.

 

[Sage Genesis]

I dont know. Depends on your position. I am saying set the default dials close to classic, but include options for raising those things. So a first level character might have max HD +Con bonus. So if you are a fighter with +2 to con, you start at 12, a wizard with +0 to con starts at 4. However you incude starting HP methods 1, 2 and 3 (like methods for rolling ability scores). Method 2 might be add your full con score instead of your con bonus (like it was in 4E if i recall). Method 3 could be everyone starts with auto fifteen hp as a buffer. Bt the key thing is these are all easier to tak on if the default starts lower. I also think the text should be clear about what these decisions will mean for play.

Alright, I'll explain my position then.

In a nutshell, TwoSix said he'd prefer a more "guns blazing" style of play.
Steeldragons then said that's ok, as long as you accept that your character will probably die.
My retort to that was, that it's punishing if a game pretends to support a style of play but then secretly doesn't.

If your position is that the game should include sliders and options to make sure the game aligns with one's individual tastes, then yes, I think you're agreeing with me. I mean, I have seriously no problem with providing a few different options to handle certain aspects of the game. Fun fact: I wrote the rules for the Legends of the Wulin RPG, a moderately successful wuxia game, and it includes exactly that kind of approach for the xp rules. I certainly don't object to options.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Alright, I'll explain my position then.

In a nutshell, TwoSix said he'd prefer a more "guns blazing" style of play.
Steeldragons then said that's ok, as long as you accept that your character will probably die.
My retort to that was, that it's punishing if a game pretends to support a style of play but then secretly doesn't.

If your position is that the game should include sliders and options to make sure the game aligns with one's individual tastes, then yes, I think you're agreeing with me. I mean, I have seriously no problem with providing a few different options to handle certain aspects of the game. Fun fact: I wrote the rules for the Legends of the Wulin RPG, a moderately successful wuxia game, and it includes exactly that kind of approach for the xp rules. I certainly don't object to options.

I think we are on the same page.

I will need to check out Legends of Wulin. Currently trying to cobble together a wuxia style campaign for 3E using the OA book, but it is going to take some adjustments to make third edition emulate wuxia. So i am not opposed to these other styles of play at all. It is just more about having the defult be baseline D&D, and providing tools to scale that.

 

[Sage Genesis]

I think we are on the same page.

I will need to check out Legends of Wulin. Currently trying to cobble together a wuxia style campaign for 3E using the OA book, but it is going to take some adjustments to make third edition emulate wuxia. So i am not opposed to these other styles of play at all. It is just more about having the defult be baseline D&D, and providing tools to scale that.

Cool.

Fair warning: LotW is not at all like D&D.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Cool.

Fair warning: LotW is not at all like D&D.

I mostly play other games than D&D so that is fine (Savage Worlds, Doctor Who, my own games, etc). The only games I really cant get into are things like Fiasco, Dread and Gumshoe. I was just thinking of picking it up to get ideas for the 3E game I am going to run, however, so even if it is on that end of the spectrum I can probably make use of it.

 

[TwoSix]

Bt the key thing is these are all easier to tak on if the default starts lower. I also think the text should be clear about what these decisions will mean for play.

I actually agree with this. The defaults should be conservative, and the sliders should add wahoo. It's more fun to be a permissive DM than to be a strict one.

 

[Danzauker]

IMO, it only makes a difference to the narrative. At the table, it is simply a matter of the DM saying, "You rest a week/a month and recover all your hit points."

Similarly, in 4e, you could avoid "unrealistic" issues by defining an extended rest as a week's rest or a month's rest in a (reasonably) stress-free environment.

The problem is when you're not in a stress-free environment, such as in the middle of a dungeon exploration or a time critical mission such as "stop the evil cleric ritual before the next new moon", which are quite common scenarios.

 

[Ratskinner]

I actually agree with this. The defaults should be conservative, and the sliders should add wahoo. It's more fun to be a permissive DM than to be a strict one.

I'll third that motion. It's also easier in a given campaign to loosen up, rather than get strict. Makes you seem like less of a jerk, anyway.

 

[darjr]

we are still not on the same page. A cleric has never been necessary to gameplay, there are just consequences for not having one. I want that to remain in the game. So again for me your solutions are altering the game that just deviates too much from what I consider the experience of D&D to be. Maybe others won't feel as I do, but I think the recent turn against HD suggests folks largely want a return to the classic approach to clerics, damage and healing. But again, there is no problem having an optional rule in there that does exactly what you suggest, that should keep us both happy. I just don't want to it to be in the default.

I think this is a very good point, and one I agree with. I think there may be a hangup about 'cleric' and divine magic. For instance I'd be alright with a 'medic' class that has non divine healing, as long as I was able to host a party without one or without a cleric.