2 for 1 flaw. -5 to ranged attacks? Balanced?

[Moon-Lancer]

Is it balanced to have a melee character take a -5 on ranged attacks for two feats at first level? I’m the player and the dm allowed this, However I feel little dirty. The dm however thinks my character is crippled with a -5 to ranged attacks, I do not. She plans to exploit this flaw, fore sure. Although I believe I can overcome this problem with a tower shield. She is not worried at all.

Is this Too good in my favor? did I screw over the dm, or did the dm screw over me?

I am really happy with it as is she, so this isn’t the problem, but i want to know what you guys think. Would you do this to your character? would you as a dm let this?

Thanks for the input

 

[Crothian]

Isn't it supposed to be one feat for one flaw?

 

[DanMcS]

If you and your DM both think you got the best part of this deal, what's the problem? You're both happy. Be sure that you're willing to retcon your character later if it ends up being wildly unbalanced one way or the other.

What's the worst case scenario here. You play a human fighter. You get 1 feat for being human, one for first level, one for fighter 1, and 2 more for this flaw. 5 feats at first level.

You take power attack and cleave, because this is obviously a melee build. Weapon focus, maybe improved initiative, and, um, what else? Iron Will? The two extra feats are nice, but not game-breaking, I think, particularly because one attack style (ranged) is effectively a closed path to you at this point, so the extra feats don't let you gain extra breadth. And you're low level, so you can't go extra far down one feat chain.

In exchange, there will be encounters where you are essentially dead weight.

So what did you do with your windfall?

 

[Moon-Lancer]

Isn't it supposed to be one feat for one flaw?

yeah, but we are are in house rule terratory now.. thier is a flaw normaly that lets you take a -2 to ranged attacks for a feat. This is a -5 for two feats.

So what did you do with your windfall?

do you mean what did i do whith the feats? well I was makeing a dervish and I really dislike playing humans. Dervish are so feat intensive. This is what did specificly.

1 Monk: (cobra strike): (2 combined flaws: -5 on Ranged attacks) dodge, Combat Reflexes, Combat expert, Deft Opportunist
2 Monk: (cobra strike): mobility
3 Fighter: weapon focus (Glaive), Karmatic Strike
4 Fighter: Power attack
5 Barb:
6 Barb: Shorten Grip
7 Dervish:
8 Dervish:
9 Dervish: Elusive Target
10 Dervish:
11 Dervish:
12 Dervish: Close-Quarters Fighting

I have story development for how he goes from monk to barbarian so its not an issue. (whenever I post this it comes up so.. um hmm)


I know their will be times when he is dead weight. Normally this really would cheese me off, but I think because i can so effectively have him do what I want him to do that that I’m not bothered by it. Although when it actually comes up (because it will) I wonder what I will actually think that. Adding such a huge negative to one aspect of his character really got me into his story development and I starting going a little overboard on giving him flaws (flaws without benefit) like giving him a dancer belt that made jingle noises that gives him negatives to move silently, or playing an Kilorian (in Ravenloft) so he has a fairly high outcast rating

 

[RangerWickett]

I think it's unbalanced in the right game. I misunderstood the normal flaw when I took it for my reckless melee warrior, so I always gave myself a -4 penalty instead of -2. However, we were doing dungeon delving, so there were about 3 times in four months of gameplay that a ranged weapon would have been preferable to me just charging the bad guy.

Fighter 4/Barbarian 1 raging, charging, power attacking for full, reckless offensive-ing (from XPH), and getting one attack at +12 (2d6+21 damage), and then cleaving into another guy. Those were fun times.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

Sure sounds like it.

The dm in question has made it known to me that she has plans To put my character into situations Where I will regret taking the flaw, although i do wonder what she has planed. Its little unnerving but I almost hope that she does exploit my characters weakness, that way I won’t feel like I have taken an advantage of her. I must have asked her 5 or 6 time if she was sure with it, and she gave me a quite sinister smile.

 

[Jack Simth]

It may be balanced, it may not; depends on the campaign.

To make sure it's unbalanced in your favor, get items of flying as soon as you can manage - you want to always be able to close - a Potion of Fly costs 750 gp market (from Ye Olde Shoppe ofe Magjickque, if available) - worth it, when it's needed; an effectively full round action (move action to get it from your pack, standard action to drink it) and you're in the ranged fray for five minutes. Winged Boots cost 16k market, and let you Fly for five minutes three times a day with just a command-word.

With walls in the way, make sure to arrange for a Cape of the Monteback (or whatever the non-ogl version is called) for Dimension Door 1/day.

 

[DreamChaser]

I would not have allowed you to take this flaw as a monk. That is like taking Vow of Poverty as a monk or sorcerer. Penalizing somethng you don't really use much anyway isn't much of a penalty.

That -5 hurts a rogue, fighter, sorcerer, or ranger a great deal more than your monk.

DC

 

[Lopke_Quasath]

I would not have allowed you to take this flaw as a monk. That is like taking Vow of Poverty as a monk or sorcerer. Penalizing somethng you don't really use much anyway isn't much of a penalty.

That -5 hurts a rogue, fighter, sorcerer, or ranger a great deal more than your monk.

Well, if he had chosen to be a ranger, sorcerer, or someone else who had ranged attacks on their minds, I'm sure the flaw would be reversed. 2 feats for a -5 to melee attacks.

Moon-Lancer is just using the Flaws system (from Unearthed Arcana), with some House Rules (the 2 feats for a -5, instead of 1 feat for a -2). The Flaws system can be abused like the way you mentioned, penalizing something your character won't use much. However, when situations come up when that "thing" is needed, you're boned.

I think the -5 penalty for 2 feats is fine, and while I wouldn't smile sinisterly if I was Moon-Lancer's DM, I would certainly make the penalty felt when certain situations came up.

Cheers

 

[pawsplay]

I have a hard time conceiving WHY a character would have -5 on ranged attacks. Surely the -2 version is more reasonable. At 4th level, you will be worse at ranged attacks than a commoner.