20 spell levels instead of 9?

[Umbran]

Hr...

Splitting up the spells currently in the PHB into 20 levels instead of 9 means that you'd end up with (on really rough average) less than half as many spells per level. That means each time they're choosing new spells, they're doing so from a small list. Two casters choosing one each from two small lists will tend to generate more similarities than choosing two from one big list.

Which means that unless you drastically change the "spells known" mechanic, or add a whole lot more spells, you're probably going to tend to see a lot more similarity among casters of a given class. I'm not sure I like that.

 

[Arkhandus]

Bleah. I hope it doesn't make it into 4th Edition.

Of course, I'm also kinda of the opinion that 0-level spells aren't needed, and could just be covered with a few 1st-level spells (just as Cantrip was a 1st-level spell in 2E, and was split up a bit and mostly made into Prestidigitation in 3E).

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

Which means that unless you drastically change the "spells known" mechanic, or add a whole lot more spells, you're probably going to tend to see a lot more similarity among casters of a given class. I'm not sure I like that.

If this was done in the hypothetical 4e it would be an incentive to move many of the spells from various supplements to beef up the core, which would be a good thing. So obviously they'd never do it that way and we'd suck up the loss of variety.

Personally I'm used to the 1st-9th design and find it an easy and agreeable system. I just want them to stop with the 9th/epic split and design proper 10th and above level play. Using that system and extending from the normal wizard progression a wizard should have their first 10th level spell at 18th lvl and 2 at 20th lvl for a base progression. That would make a nice rounded off system.

 

[QuaziquestGM]

If you want to see it done, look at the EverQuest d20 system. They used a spell point system, spell levels 1-20, and limited spells prepared to 8 without feats.

 

[Asmor]

If things are done that way, you might as well make spells more like psionics, so there are base spells that scale as you make them higher level.

Or like Elements of Magic, where you just build your own spells.

My thoughts exactly. For all intents and purposes, Psionics is already a 20-level spell system... And most spells can be used at different power levels.

For example, Mind Thrust is a level 1 psionic power. However, you can spend as many points as you want (subject to power restrictions). You get to do 1d10 damage per power point you spend, though, and the save DC increases by 1 for every 2d10 extra damage you spend, so it stays relatively competitive at every level. Heck, spend 19 PP and you're getting the equivelent of a 10th level spell, based on the save DC.

 

[Victim]

If this was done in the hypothetical 4e it would be an incentive to move many of the spells from various supplements to beef up the core, which would be a good thing. So obviously they'd never do it that way and we'd suck up the loss of variety.

Personally I'm used to the 1st-9th design and find it an easy and agreeable system. I just want them to stop with the 9th/epic split and design proper 10th and above level play. Using that system and extending from the normal wizard progression a wizard should have their first 10th level spell at 18th lvl and 2 at 20th lvl for a base progression. That would make a nice rounded off system.

Wouldn't wizards get 10th level spells at level 19, and sorcerers at 20? To fit with odds and even casting progression.

 

[ruleslawyer]

It's nicely symmetrical, which is one thing to like. 20 caster levels, 20 spell levels. It's obvious from looking at a caster's level what strength of spells he can cast.

Also, if this is one more step in the direction of Elements of Magic (hey, when are you doing that Iron Heroes adaptation Ryan?), it can only be a good thing!

 

[Glyfair]

Sean K. Reynolds had mentioned doing the same thing for his campaigns.

Monte Cook has mentioned that they considered doing it for 3E and it had a good chance of happening but they didn't have enough time (it might have been on these forums, IIRC).

He mentioned it would help even out some power level issues. For example, magic missile would become a 2nd level spell, rather than being a high powered first level spell (of course, 2nd level spells would become 3rd & 4th level spells, etc).

 

[jmucchiello]

Personally I'm used to the 1st-9th design and find it an easy and agreeable system. I just want them to stop with the 9th/epic split and design proper 10th and above level play. Using that system and extending from the normal wizard progression a wizard should have their first 10th level spell at 18th lvl and 2 at 20th lvl for a base progression. That would make a nice rounded off system.

I'm writing a system of 10th-15th level spells entirely NOT based on the epic rules. At the rate I finish projects it should be out with the announcement of 5th ed. But I am working on it....

 

[Roman]

I would also like to see 20 spell levels in principle and the annihilation of the non-epic/epic split in the 4th edition. It would, however, necessitate a huge overhaul of the magic system and would almost certainly require a transition to point-based casting, otherwise tracking spell slots would be a nightmare.