20th level monk- human subtype?

[the Jester]

If a human monk attains 20th level, he gains the outsider type. One would assume that he gains the native subtype along with the augmented humanoid subtype, and nothing indicates that he loses any subtypes. Does that mean that he retains the human subtype?

 

[Dalamar]

Technically a 20th level does not gain the Native subtype (which is a wierd thing to not change when we got 3.5, but them's the breaks), they just have a special condition that allows them to be raised and resurrected normally. The only difference this makes is that a 20th level monk doesn't need to eat or sleep.
Looking at the template examples in the Monster Manual, it seems that changing away from Humanoid removes the subtypes (Half-[creature], Vampire, etc.). I guess you could see the standard Humanoid subtypes as the same as Reptilian, i.e. they can only be possessed by Humanoids.

Trivia of the day: 20th level monks are immune to Bane weapons, as they are Outsiders that don't have alignment subtypes.

 

[Tatsukun]

Wait, if they become outsiders, and don't have a human subtype, are they still human?

If they are immune to Bane weapons, they must not be human. If they are not human, do they loose the bonus feat / skillpoints ?

Hmm, seems poorly thought out.

 

[Dalamar]

Well, Bane weapons against humans are Humanoid (Human) Bane, so even if they kept the Human subtype, they'd be immune to Bane weapons. But the same way that a Vampire or Half-Celestial doesn't lose their human bonus feat and skills, the 20th level Monk keeps them.

WotC really should've made a general Enlightened Creature template whose main effect is merely changing the base creature's type to Outsider (Native) and keeping all Attacks and Qualities of the base creature. Then you could hand that out to all the classes that have that kind of ability (Monk and Incarnate, off the top of my head).

 

[Infiniti2000]

Note that technically, the monk's type doesn't actually change. A human monk remains a human, but "She is forevermore treated as an outsider rather than as a humanoid ... for the purpose of spells and magical effects." So, once-human monks still need to eat and sleep, maintain their skills and feats, etc.

As for bane weapons, I agree that there's a hole if you consider the bane property to be a magical effect (and I don't think that's arguable). The monk would not be affected by any bane weapon because none of them are merely "outsider." I would personally houserule all monks to be affected by lawful outsider bane weapons and evil/good for LE/LG, respectively.