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20th level Sorcerer vs the world
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<blockquote data-quote="nogray" data-source="post: 8168192" data-attributes="member: 28028"><p>In your boasts? Yep. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> And you didn't even address the important concerns in your reply. Additionally, I found another glaring error in your plan.</p><p></p><p>For reference, the most important errors in your boasts are (1) your "effective hit point total" and that your posts seem to indicate that your sims (2) have a 9th-level spell slot, and (3) have an unlimited "useful" life. None are true.</p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Your simulacrum has a considerably smaller hit point total than you do. As soon as it dies, your resistance goes away, cutting your effective remaining hit points in half. The only way for it to recover hit points is with Unearthly Recovery (requiring that it be below half hit points to use).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">You use your 9th level slot to cast the Simulacrum, so it comes into being with an expended 9th-level spell slot. (That's my understanding of it, anyway.) It has no way to regain that spell slot.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">You depend on the sim to cast Warding Bond regularly. That's going to chew through its low-level slots or its daily SP rapidly. Regardless of the low-level slots, the sim has only two 6th, two 7th, and one 8th level slot, which can not be regained in any way.</li> </ol><p>The new error is that (from my reading) Seeming can neither have you look like your Magens convincingly nor your Celestials at all. The Seeming spell includes this text (my emphasis): "You can make each creature seem <strong>1 foot</strong> shorter or taller and appear thin, fat, or in between. You can't change a target's body type, so <strong>you must choose a form that has the same basic arrangement of limbs</strong>." The celestial from the spell is a Large creature with six limbs (2 arms, 2 legs, 2 wings, as pictured in the spell). The magens are medium, 4-limbed creatures (as pictured). Based just on the number of limbs, there is no circumstance where these two can be made to look like one another with the Seeming spell. As to you and your sim, you are also medium, so can't be made to look like your Celestials, and your number of limbs while flying is also six, so you can't look like your magens. (No, I don't think the disguise kit can make up the difference. The celestial thing is maybe-kinda-questionably permissible, as a really short celestial might be made to appear shorter and you taller, but I (in my DM hat) wouldn't let the Seeming spell cross size boundaries without the "shorter" target having a feature like Powerful Build.)</p><p></p><p>SP and low-level slot analysis for Warding Bond:</p><p>[spoiler] If you want the sim to maintain SP for use in possible combats, 16 hours (one adventuring day) of Warding Bond costs a fresh simulacrum all of its level 1 slots (converted to SP), all of its level 2 slots, all of its level 3 slots, one of its level 4 slots, and 6 of its daily SP. Extending this to the whole 24 hour day costs the remaining two level 4 slots and two of its level 5 slots (though this "refunds" the sim 2 SP). If you instead spend SP to generate the slots for the spell, it costs 4 SP per spell, meaning that the sim can cast the spell up to 5 times for the 20 SP it has. The four level-1 slots and three level-2 slots and the 20 SP give 16 hours of protection. The next day, however, the sim would only regain the 20 SP, meaning that it would eat into its higher-level slots. This sorcerer must not have planned for multiple-day outings. [/spoiler]</p><p></p><p></p><p>The trigger for your Contingency was "When I can't cast spell." Can you cast a spell when you are asleep? No? Then your Contingency goes off. Congrats. Or maybe you meant something else to be your trigger. (I'm mostly kidding around here, as it's really not that hard to word a Contingency. A dickish DM, though, would do just that to you.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Then you didn't take long to look. Except in white-room examples, you aren't always flying, as you have to rest (and have no means of quick travel to a safe haven nor any way to make a safe haven). As part of your "defenses" are the Seeming (with my new objection, above), I think I'll also add this: If you Extend the Seeming, you have 16 hours, so are you going to cast that again, or let it lapse for 8 hours each day?</p><p></p><p></p><p>How? In some white-room example where your play is inexplicably perfect while your enemies attack you with only rudimentary tactics?</p><p></p><p></p><p>How does Subtle Spell have anything to do with the "hostility" bit of Planar Binding? Subtle Spell on Planar Binding is meaningless. Sure, it removes the VS components (not the M of the 1000 gp gem you had to crush as part of casting the spell), but you were still there with the Celestial for the hour of casting the spell. It knows who cast the spell on it; otherwise, it wouldn't know whose orders to follow. As to the interaction of Planar Binding and Summon Celestial, it could be argued that, while the Summon Celestial gets you an Avenger Celestial that follows your verbal commands for an hour (okay, so you Extend the spell to two hours so it lasts long enough to Planar Binding it), but the Planar Binding spell (it might be argued) replaces/augments the description of the Summon Celestial's "obeys your verbal commands" and "is an ally to you" with information about a creature that is (or becomes) hostile to you. Depending on the DM's ruling, you could say that unnaturally extending the service from an hour to 180 days gets you that hostility; at that point, your minion is no more "loyal" than any other Planar Binding minion.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Cool! Now to kill you, all I have to do is make you look like any other creature (other than yourself and your gang). Any Illusion spell might just make it so that your minions don't recognize you. At that point, all your minions' damage is turned on you (only half-serious, here). The verbal command each turn (or each change in target, or whatever) vs. general command bit is a DM call. I could see it either way, so I'm happy to drop it.</p><p></p><p></p><p>That's not the parameter I was questioning. Since you didn't seem to understand that, let me be more clear:</p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Would you prefer an arena combat or a more "part of real play" sort of challenge?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">If an arena, what sort of prep time and resources would you prefer? (From an absolutely alone beginning.)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">If a real-play encounter, you will need the exact composition of your forces, including that your hit point total and your sim's most recent casting will be reduced for each magen that is part of your forces, and you will have to resolve the Seeming spell issue, above. You would also need to put thought into how you travel, what your camping looks like, what your exact orders are to your forces, etc.</li> </ol><p>I think that's it for now. Have a good night! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="nogray, post: 8168192, member: 28028"] In your boasts? Yep. :) And you didn't even address the important concerns in your reply. Additionally, I found another glaring error in your plan. For reference, the most important errors in your boasts are (1) your "effective hit point total" and that your posts seem to indicate that your sims (2) have a 9th-level spell slot, and (3) have an unlimited "useful" life. None are true. [LIST=1] [*]Your simulacrum has a considerably smaller hit point total than you do. As soon as it dies, your resistance goes away, cutting your effective remaining hit points in half. The only way for it to recover hit points is with Unearthly Recovery (requiring that it be below half hit points to use). [*]You use your 9th level slot to cast the Simulacrum, so it comes into being with an expended 9th-level spell slot. (That's my understanding of it, anyway.) It has no way to regain that spell slot. [*]You depend on the sim to cast Warding Bond regularly. That's going to chew through its low-level slots or its daily SP rapidly. Regardless of the low-level slots, the sim has only two 6th, two 7th, and one 8th level slot, which can not be regained in any way. [/LIST] The new error is that (from my reading) Seeming can neither have you look like your Magens convincingly nor your Celestials at all. The Seeming spell includes this text (my emphasis): "You can make each creature seem [B]1 foot[/B] shorter or taller and appear thin, fat, or in between. You can't change a target's body type, so [B]you must choose a form that has the same basic arrangement of limbs[/B]." The celestial from the spell is a Large creature with six limbs (2 arms, 2 legs, 2 wings, as pictured in the spell). The magens are medium, 4-limbed creatures (as pictured). Based just on the number of limbs, there is no circumstance where these two can be made to look like one another with the Seeming spell. As to you and your sim, you are also medium, so can't be made to look like your Celestials, and your number of limbs while flying is also six, so you can't look like your magens. (No, I don't think the disguise kit can make up the difference. The celestial thing is maybe-kinda-questionably permissible, as a really short celestial might be made to appear shorter and you taller, but I (in my DM hat) wouldn't let the Seeming spell cross size boundaries without the "shorter" target having a feature like Powerful Build.) SP and low-level slot analysis for Warding Bond: [spoiler] If you want the sim to maintain SP for use in possible combats, 16 hours (one adventuring day) of Warding Bond costs a fresh simulacrum all of its level 1 slots (converted to SP), all of its level 2 slots, all of its level 3 slots, one of its level 4 slots, and 6 of its daily SP. Extending this to the whole 24 hour day costs the remaining two level 4 slots and two of its level 5 slots (though this "refunds" the sim 2 SP). If you instead spend SP to generate the slots for the spell, it costs 4 SP per spell, meaning that the sim can cast the spell up to 5 times for the 20 SP it has. The four level-1 slots and three level-2 slots and the 20 SP give 16 hours of protection. The next day, however, the sim would only regain the 20 SP, meaning that it would eat into its higher-level slots. This sorcerer must not have planned for multiple-day outings. [/spoiler] The trigger for your Contingency was "When I can't cast spell." Can you cast a spell when you are asleep? No? Then your Contingency goes off. Congrats. Or maybe you meant something else to be your trigger. (I'm mostly kidding around here, as it's really not that hard to word a Contingency. A dickish DM, though, would do just that to you. Then you didn't take long to look. Except in white-room examples, you aren't always flying, as you have to rest (and have no means of quick travel to a safe haven nor any way to make a safe haven). As part of your "defenses" are the Seeming (with my new objection, above), I think I'll also add this: If you Extend the Seeming, you have 16 hours, so are you going to cast that again, or let it lapse for 8 hours each day? How? In some white-room example where your play is inexplicably perfect while your enemies attack you with only rudimentary tactics? How does Subtle Spell have anything to do with the "hostility" bit of Planar Binding? Subtle Spell on Planar Binding is meaningless. Sure, it removes the VS components (not the M of the 1000 gp gem you had to crush as part of casting the spell), but you were still there with the Celestial for the hour of casting the spell. It knows who cast the spell on it; otherwise, it wouldn't know whose orders to follow. As to the interaction of Planar Binding and Summon Celestial, it could be argued that, while the Summon Celestial gets you an Avenger Celestial that follows your verbal commands for an hour (okay, so you Extend the spell to two hours so it lasts long enough to Planar Binding it), but the Planar Binding spell (it might be argued) replaces/augments the description of the Summon Celestial's "obeys your verbal commands" and "is an ally to you" with information about a creature that is (or becomes) hostile to you. Depending on the DM's ruling, you could say that unnaturally extending the service from an hour to 180 days gets you that hostility; at that point, your minion is no more "loyal" than any other Planar Binding minion. Cool! Now to kill you, all I have to do is make you look like any other creature (other than yourself and your gang). Any Illusion spell might just make it so that your minions don't recognize you. At that point, all your minions' damage is turned on you (only half-serious, here). The verbal command each turn (or each change in target, or whatever) vs. general command bit is a DM call. I could see it either way, so I'm happy to drop it. That's not the parameter I was questioning. Since you didn't seem to understand that, let me be more clear: [LIST=1] [*]Would you prefer an arena combat or a more "part of real play" sort of challenge? [*]If an arena, what sort of prep time and resources would you prefer? (From an absolutely alone beginning.) [*]If a real-play encounter, you will need the exact composition of your forces, including that your hit point total and your sim's most recent casting will be reduced for each magen that is part of your forces, and you will have to resolve the Seeming spell issue, above. You would also need to put thought into how you travel, what your camping looks like, what your exact orders are to your forces, etc. [/LIST] I think that's it for now. Have a good night! :) [/QUOTE]
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