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20th level Sorcerer vs the world
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<blockquote data-quote="nogray" data-source="post: 8171650" data-attributes="member: 28028"><p>No; it's the best at lying to creatures. It's not the best at persuasion or intimidation. It is not even good at <em>creating</em> a disguise (that is a function of the Disguise Kit proficiency and is more likely to be intelligence or maybe wisdom than charisma. (Read up on disguise kits and deception. Deception allows you to act correctly when you are wearing a disguise, but the quality of the disguise is from how that was made (the kit that says that's what it's for).)</p><p></p><p></p><p>If by "really cool" you mean "probably impossible." There is no way that riding a pegasus could count as a restful circumstance. If it were a horse on the ground walking, I might allow it, but flying with wings is just never going to be a relaxing, restful experience.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The sorcerer's attack at 660 ft is the freezing sphere (possibly empowered). Since you didn't spend your action to start your turn to activate your daily Aasimar trait, the +20 damage is not active. Cast at spell slot level 6, the Empowered freezing sphere deals an expected value of (3.5*4 + 3 + 4*2 + 5*2 + 6) 41 damage. Call that 42.5 for other math-y reasons. It's cold damage with a Con save DC 18 for 1/2. One for you and one for your Sim (which depletes that slot permanently from the Sim, meaning you have to Wish - Simulacrum to have it again) makes the total 85 damage. Are you upcasting it?</p><p></p><p>(By the way, you really do need to pick whether you are somehow a Drow (probably against the rules, almost certainly improbable to arrange even if it were legal) or an Aasimar -- you only get to be one of them at a time.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>Your Celestials deal, on average, 18 damage on a hit, 25 on a crit, and 0 on a miss; they have 4 attacks at +10. Other characters tend to worry more about their AC than yours, so, it seems unlikely that the Celestials will hit with perfect reliability, especially at long range where disadvantage applies to all their attacks. The actual average expected damage is easy to calculate. Here is a table, including the level 9 and level 8 versions (since your Sim can only ever get a level 8 Celestial and I think that is one of the situations from the original post). For an AC of 16, the expected damage per round is only 40.6 per level 9 celestial. Still kind of likely to kill a wizard, especially after your spheres. But that does rather assume no protections are active.</p><p></p><p>Table of Expected damage vs. AC for long-range summon celestial attacks:</p><p>[spoiler]</p><table style='width: 100%'><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">AC</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">hit chance</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">L9 dpa</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">L9 dpr</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">L8 dpa</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">L8 dpr</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">12</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.9025</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">16.2625</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">65.05</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">15.36</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">61.44</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">13</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.81</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">14.5975</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">58.39</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">13.7875</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">55.15</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">14</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.7225</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">13.0225</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">52.09</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">12.3</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">49.2</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">15</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.64</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">11.5375</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">46.15</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">10.8975</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">43.59</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">16</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.5625</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">10.1425</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">40.57</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">9.58</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">38.32</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">17</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.49</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">8.8375</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">35.35</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">8.3475</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">33.39</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">18</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.4225</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">7.6225</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">30.49</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">7.2</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">28.8</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">19</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.36</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">6.4975</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">25.99</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">6.1375</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">24.55</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">20</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.3025</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">5.4625</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">21.85</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">5.16</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">20.64</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">21</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.25</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">4.5175</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">18.07</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">4.2675</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">17.07</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">22</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.2025</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">3.6625</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">14.65</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">3.46</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">13.84</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">23</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.16</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">2.8975</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">11.59</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">2.7375</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">10.95</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">24</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.1225</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">2.2225</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">8.89</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">2.1</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">8.4</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">25</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.09</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">1.6375</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">6.55</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">1.5475</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">6.19</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">26</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.0625</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">1.1425</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">4.57</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">1.08</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">4.32</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">27</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.04</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.7375</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">2.95</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.6975</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">2.79</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">28</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.0225</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.4225</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">1.69</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.4</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">1.6</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">29</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.01</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.1975</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.79</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.1875</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.75</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">30</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.0025</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.0625</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.25</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.06</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.24</p> </td></tr></table><p>[/spoiler]</p><p></p><p>Umm . . . no. It knows what the target knew at the moment it was created and can learn nothing new. (That's why the Sorcerer's (probably rules-violating) DMM sim can never direct a summoned retriever to "retrieve" anyone that the real-live DMM didn't know. The retriever's quarry must be someone the retriever's master is "personally acquainted with," and since simulacra can not learn anything new, then the real-person being simulated must be personally acquainted with the target-to-be. If, per your interpretation, the DMMSim knew nothing, they could never send a retriever on a hunt.</p><p></p><p></p><p>That is from the "object to creature" part of the spell, not the "creature to creature." The correct section of True Polymorph says that the creature retains its alignment and personality. The personality of a Sim includes the quirky little traits that it "is friendly to you and creatures you designate" and that it "obeys your spoken commands."</p><p></p><p></p><p>Oh, goody. Another f-ing wish. You must get like 17 of those each day.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The MMD SIm is probably not a legal thing.</p><p>On the likely illegality of the DMM sim:</p><p>[spoiler] While the Wish allows you to duplicate the effect of Simulacrum, thereby bypassing the material components and casting time of the Simulacrum spell, I am not sure that it allows you to <em>change</em> the effect of the spell, which reads (emphasis mine), "You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid <strong>that is within range for the entire casting time of the spell</strong>." The range is "Touch." So, absent an actual DMM that is either willing or helpless, it seems like the DMM sim is impossible. If creating a sim of a humanoid that is not present is a legal use of the Wish-Simulacrum, then an opponent Wizard could just Wish --> Simulacrum for a sim of the Sorcerer ("the true leader of the magen and zombie army") and conduct an extensive interview of the sim for pointers on the defenses (layout and patterns). [/spoiler]</p><p></p><p></p><p>Either the DMMSim doesn't know anything (your interpretation), and thus can't be familiar with a target, and thus can't designate a target for the retriever, or the DMMSim knows only what the DMM knew when it was (illegally) targeted by the Simulacrum spell, and thus can't learn about someone new (like the scrying wizard, or even someone the DMMSim actually meets in person), and thus can't become familiar with a target, and thus can't designate a target for the retriever. Either way, there is no legal way to make the retriever hunt someone that the actual DMM didn't know.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="nogray, post: 8171650, member: 28028"] No; it's the best at lying to creatures. It's not the best at persuasion or intimidation. It is not even good at [I]creating[/I] a disguise (that is a function of the Disguise Kit proficiency and is more likely to be intelligence or maybe wisdom than charisma. (Read up on disguise kits and deception. Deception allows you to act correctly when you are wearing a disguise, but the quality of the disguise is from how that was made (the kit that says that's what it's for).) If by "really cool" you mean "probably impossible." There is no way that riding a pegasus could count as a restful circumstance. If it were a horse on the ground walking, I might allow it, but flying with wings is just never going to be a relaxing, restful experience. The sorcerer's attack at 660 ft is the freezing sphere (possibly empowered). Since you didn't spend your action to start your turn to activate your daily Aasimar trait, the +20 damage is not active. Cast at spell slot level 6, the Empowered freezing sphere deals an expected value of (3.5*4 + 3 + 4*2 + 5*2 + 6) 41 damage. Call that 42.5 for other math-y reasons. It's cold damage with a Con save DC 18 for 1/2. One for you and one for your Sim (which depletes that slot permanently from the Sim, meaning you have to Wish - Simulacrum to have it again) makes the total 85 damage. Are you upcasting it? (By the way, you really do need to pick whether you are somehow a Drow (probably against the rules, almost certainly improbable to arrange even if it were legal) or an Aasimar -- you only get to be one of them at a time.) Your Celestials deal, on average, 18 damage on a hit, 25 on a crit, and 0 on a miss; they have 4 attacks at +10. Other characters tend to worry more about their AC than yours, so, it seems unlikely that the Celestials will hit with perfect reliability, especially at long range where disadvantage applies to all their attacks. The actual average expected damage is easy to calculate. Here is a table, including the level 9 and level 8 versions (since your Sim can only ever get a level 8 Celestial and I think that is one of the situations from the original post). For an AC of 16, the expected damage per round is only 40.6 per level 9 celestial. Still kind of likely to kill a wizard, especially after your spheres. But that does rather assume no protections are active. Table of Expected damage vs. AC for long-range summon celestial attacks: [spoiler] [TABLE] [TR] [TD][CENTER]AC[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]hit chance[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]L9 dpa[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]L9 dpr[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]L8 dpa[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]L8 dpr[/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][CENTER]12[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.9025[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]16.2625[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]65.05[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]15.36[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]61.44[/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][CENTER]13[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.81[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]14.5975[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]58.39[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]13.7875[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]55.15[/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][CENTER]14[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.7225[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]13.0225[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]52.09[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]12.3[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]49.2[/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][CENTER]15[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.64[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]11.5375[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]46.15[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]10.8975[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]43.59[/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][CENTER]16[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.5625[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]10.1425[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]40.57[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]9.58[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]38.32[/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][CENTER]17[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.49[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]8.8375[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]35.35[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]8.3475[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]33.39[/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][CENTER]18[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.4225[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]7.6225[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]30.49[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]7.2[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]28.8[/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][CENTER]19[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.36[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]6.4975[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]25.99[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]6.1375[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]24.55[/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][CENTER]20[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.3025[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]5.4625[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]21.85[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]5.16[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]20.64[/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][CENTER]21[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.25[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]4.5175[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]18.07[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]4.2675[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]17.07[/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][CENTER]22[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.2025[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]3.6625[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]14.65[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]3.46[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]13.84[/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][CENTER]23[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.16[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]2.8975[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]11.59[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]2.7375[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]10.95[/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][CENTER]24[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.1225[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]2.2225[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]8.89[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]2.1[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]8.4[/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][CENTER]25[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.09[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]1.6375[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]6.55[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]1.5475[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]6.19[/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][CENTER]26[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.0625[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]1.1425[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]4.57[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]1.08[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]4.32[/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][CENTER]27[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.04[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.7375[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]2.95[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.6975[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]2.79[/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][CENTER]28[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.0225[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.4225[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]1.69[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.4[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]1.6[/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][CENTER]29[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.01[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.1975[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.79[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.1875[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.75[/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][CENTER]30[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.0025[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.0625[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.25[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.06[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]0.24[/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/spoiler] Umm . . . no. It knows what the target knew at the moment it was created and can learn nothing new. (That's why the Sorcerer's (probably rules-violating) DMM sim can never direct a summoned retriever to "retrieve" anyone that the real-live DMM didn't know. The retriever's quarry must be someone the retriever's master is "personally acquainted with," and since simulacra can not learn anything new, then the real-person being simulated must be personally acquainted with the target-to-be. If, per your interpretation, the DMMSim knew nothing, they could never send a retriever on a hunt. That is from the "object to creature" part of the spell, not the "creature to creature." The correct section of True Polymorph says that the creature retains its alignment and personality. The personality of a Sim includes the quirky little traits that it "is friendly to you and creatures you designate" and that it "obeys your spoken commands." Oh, goody. Another f-ing wish. You must get like 17 of those each day. The MMD SIm is probably not a legal thing. On the likely illegality of the DMM sim: [spoiler] While the Wish allows you to duplicate the effect of Simulacrum, thereby bypassing the material components and casting time of the Simulacrum spell, I am not sure that it allows you to [I]change[/I] the effect of the spell, which reads (emphasis mine), "You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid [B]that is within range for the entire casting time of the spell[/B]." The range is "Touch." So, absent an actual DMM that is either willing or helpless, it seems like the DMM sim is impossible. If creating a sim of a humanoid that is not present is a legal use of the Wish-Simulacrum, then an opponent Wizard could just Wish --> Simulacrum for a sim of the Sorcerer ("the true leader of the magen and zombie army") and conduct an extensive interview of the sim for pointers on the defenses (layout and patterns). [/spoiler] Either the DMMSim doesn't know anything (your interpretation), and thus can't be familiar with a target, and thus can't designate a target for the retriever, or the DMMSim knows only what the DMM knew when it was (illegally) targeted by the Simulacrum spell, and thus can't learn about someone new (like the scrying wizard, or even someone the DMMSim actually meets in person), and thus can't become familiar with a target, and thus can't designate a target for the retriever. Either way, there is no legal way to make the retriever hunt someone that the actual DMM didn't know. [/QUOTE]
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