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Message: <blockquote data-quote="nogray" data-source="post: 8175605" data-attributes="member: 28028">Twin Simulacrum? Effectively. They can cast a simulacrum that has a level 9 slot, allowing that Sim to Wish a Simulacrum spell that can duplicate such an effect, should that be decided to be legal.Your turn: Which of the following is true:<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">A Wish-based simulacrum spell could be directed as follows: "I wish for a Simulacrum of the person or creature most responsible for <a description of the Sorcerer's actions in the world>."</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Your DMM Sim is illegal unless you have an actual DMM on hand to touch for the casting of the Wish-based Simulacrum spell.</li> </ol>I honestly can't see a way that (2) would be legal but (1) would not.Twin Mind Blank? Once again, sort of. The Wizard's Sim (unlike the Sorcerer's Sim) could cast Mind Blank.Twin Finger? That, I'll give you, as you retain the ability to have your Sim combat cast something else.The ability of a Sorcerer to cast more spells than a Wizard only applies at level 20 with ample short rests (coffee-locking) and discounting the advantages of a Wizard. The Sorcerer is, prior to 20, at a slight disadvantage compared to the Wizard in terms of raw number of spells cast per day. The Wizard gets Arcane Recovery, which compares (very slightly) favorably with the Sorcerer's SP --> slots Flexible Casting, but this difference is magnified by the alternative uses for SP. Barring Coffee-Locking activities, that remains true at level 20, too, especially if you include the free rituals and spells from Spell Mastery and Signature Spells.Aid, Seeming, and Etherealness are all cool spells, too, and Extending them is also an excellent bit of utility. My Divine Soul Sorcerer in a low-level campaign typically Extends her Mage Armor spell. Turning an 8-hour spell into a 16-hour spell is great, but it still leaves you vulnerable for the remaining 8 hours of the day. That's a real drag. Aid can be a trap of false security, too. Those hit points go away when the spell ends. Someone with 8th-level Aid up (35 hp, IIRC) that has a total of 35 or less hit points is one successful Dispel Magic away from a dirt nap.The converse, what a Wizard can do that a Sorcerer can't, is interesting to consider: Keep up Mind Blank and still have a Wish. Add a Plane Shift in there to get out of a Demiplane, if needed. Get the benefit of those bullet points in the Wish spell without risking the permanent loss of the ability to cast Wish (thanks to a Simulacrum that has a level 9 slot). Change spell load-outs from combat to social to exploration to something purpose-built for a special task. A Wizard never needs to hesitate to learn a spell (unless cash is really tight), while a Sorcerer must choose his spells carefully. Cast spells for free via ritual (the Sorcerer can duplicate this with a feat, IIRC). Wizards have, in general, a larger spell list and more spells known than do Sorcerers.Skill Empowerment is not unique to Sorcerers. It has a duration that is quite useful, and the cases where it would matter that it lasts two hours vs. one hour or is cast subtly are vanishingly small in most real-play contexts. Minions (or other party members, as this is a team-based game) can help anyone, and the Guidance cantrip depends on having something that can cast it (your DMM Sim that the Wizard could get through his Sim Wishing for the DMMSim).The Sorcerer parts are Magical Guidance and Trance of Order. Both are, admittedly, good features. Trance is limited to one minute per day or a 5-SP cost to re-use it (use it on a convincing lie and you might not have it for a stealth check, or vice versa), and Magical Guidance is likewise limited in terms of sorcery points. (I know, a level 20 Sorcerer gets four SP back per short rest and can change spells into sorcery points. In real campaigns, that's typically a maximum of 4 to 12 SP per day plus the ones from the slots. Absent some degree of coffee-locking, you are still on a budget.)Only, I'd imagine, by the previously-employed tactic of Schroedinger's actions (where you say what you do, then someone points out how that doesn't work, then you employ a different set of initial-round tactics -- ones tailor-built to the defense described). Of course, if you know ahead of time what you are facing or can change your actions once you realize they don't work, you will likely be able to counter obstacles. The problem is that in an actual play scenario, you won't know what spells have been pre-cast by your opponents.[USER=6914290]@Gammadoodler[/USER] covered my thoughts on skill monkeys, but to further explore the ideas of what a high deception gets to do: A trickster might be able to make the people believe that the Wizard's Guilds are up to no good, but that wouldn't let him dictate what actions they take, if any, against the guild. (In most settings, if you made the townsfolk believe that the local Wizard's Guild was out to get them, the reaction would probably be less "get the pitchforks" and more "run and hide.") It takes the additional Mass Suggestion to do that, and if that is the case, what was the point of the Deception?Social Aside: Lies vs. the Truth[spoiler] Did you know that there are no rules, guidelines, or DCs for getting someone to believe the truth. If your Sorcerer said to someone, "The Wizard Guild is committing atrocities," and made whatever DC the DM set for you, then a rep of the Wizard's Guild truthfully said to the victim of your lies, "We are not committing those atrocities," there is no roll for that representative to make. Any convincing is purely in the realm of DM fiat. In most games that I've played and DMed, Deception is only good for brief lies and tends to lose its effectiveness when confronted with either evidence counter to the lie or someone else telling the simple, honest truth. You can make someone believe a thing for a short time, not long enough to engage in an all-out war against a Wizard Guild (or anyone else). [/spoiler]</blockquote>

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