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<blockquote data-quote="Earth2Carnifex" data-source="post: 8182135" data-attributes="member: 6779794">I think this has always been the crux of the problem. The sorcerer is great in this nice neat little sandbox OP built, but outside of it, meh! not so much. In real games there is a DM, who yes, has every right to use DM fiat. There are other players, who may (and lets face it, probably will) do unexpected things. Finally, there are actual die rolls, some days your dice roll well and some days they don't.I am pretty sure, even as a BBEG, the sorcerer would fall to a party of 4 reasonably experienced players running 12th level characters. The sorcerer is after all, not that much more powerful than your average Lich. In the end, action economy would be his downfall, and if the sorcerer is smart, he would take out the healer in the first round, because if he doesn't, he will likely go down without a single kill, and the screams of &quot;NO ONE CAN EVER SEE ME EVER!&quot; or &quot;NO ONE CAN ROLL INITIATIVE UNLESS I SAY THEY CAN!&quot;, will fall on the deaf ears of a competent DM.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Earth2Carnifex, post: 8182135, member: 6779794"] I think this has always been the crux of the problem. The sorcerer is great in this nice neat little sandbox OP built, but outside of it, meh! not so much. In real games there is a DM, who yes, has every right to use DM fiat. There are other players, who may (and lets face it, probably will) do unexpected things. Finally, there are actual die rolls, some days your dice roll well and some days they don't. I am pretty sure, even as a BBEG, the sorcerer would fall to a party of 4 reasonably experienced players running 12th level characters. The sorcerer is after all, not that much more powerful than your average Lich. In the end, action economy would be his downfall, and if the sorcerer is smart, he would take out the healer in the first round, because if he doesn't, he will likely go down without a single kill, and the screams of "NO ONE CAN EVER SEE ME EVER!" or "NO ONE CAN ROLL INITIATIVE UNLESS I SAY THEY CAN!", will fall on the deaf ears of a competent DM. [/QUOTE]

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