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Message: <blockquote data-quote="nogray" data-source="post: 8191343" data-attributes="member: 28028">You may have made some mistakes and admitted to them, but every single build on page 1 is still incorrect and illegal with errors in spells known.Holy Boi: 18 spells known instead of 16 (15 from sorcerer + 1 from divine soul)Sparky Boi: 16 spells known instead of 15Coffee Boi: there are one too few "clockwork" spells known at each of level 1 and level 4; since you have 25 overall spells known (the correct number), that means you have two too many spells known of some level(s) other than 1 and 4.Details here:[spoiler] What I mean by that is that the spells from Clockwork Soul can only be Alarm, Protection from Evil and Good, or a first/fourth-level abjuration or transmutation spell of an appropriate class. For first-level spells, the list presented contains only two first-level spells (Armor of Agathys and Sleep), only one of which (Armor . . .) is viable; for fourth-level spells, only Polymorph is legal for a clockwork spell, with Dimension Door being conjuration and Improved Invisibility being Illusion. The rules for clockwork soul were not followed, so the character is illegal. [/spoiler]The following spells from your spell list, by the rules in Xanathar's Guide, are not "imperceptible" by virtue of still having a spell component, even with Subtle Spell applied: Armor of Agathys, Sleep, Aid, Pass Without Trace, Nondetection, Polymorph, Wall of Force, Greater Restoration, Planar Binding, Freezing Sphere (it wouldn't matter if this were Subtled or not; it causes a freezing sphere to "streak from your fingertips" -- an obvious effect), Disintegrate (same as Freezing Sphere for obviousness), Mass Suggestion, Flesh to Stone, Plane Shift, and Horrid Wilting. In a campaign with a DM, there might be some negotiation as to whether a particular material component gives away your position and that you are casting a spell, but your continued disavowment of even reasonable DM fiat, we are left with only the conclusion that any of these spells, by virtue of not being imperceptible, give away your position and spoil hiding when they are cast. Is there some other interpretation that you would prefer?I'm still not getting your claim that the various new sorcerers have "more spells known than a wizard has prepared." By my reckoning, these characters have 25 spells known. A 20th level wizard will have 20 (level) + 5 (most likely Int mod) + 2 (signature spell -- 3rd-level spells only) plus the spell mastery level 1 and 2 spells that can be cast at will. That's 27 or 29.</blockquote>

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