24 - 4e style (closed)

[Mal Malenkirk]

Okay, so Garrick is definetely going to be more melee than ranged now? I had kind of imagined you'd focus on the shuriken since I was starting to get the notion your rogue had favored ranged attack through day 1. But that's just as likely to be a misconception of my own that any intent of yours.

Just a bit of advice though; IMO a rogue should decide his identity; Melee or ranged, and then make every choice based either on that decision on or on skill challenge consideration (in the case iof some utilities). Garrick still seems a bit uncertain, there, IMO. For example, Shadow Stride is a great utility power for a ninja who skitters unseen on the edge of the fight, throwing shuriken through the back of the skull of his enemies. It's basically a mean to get more ranged sneak attack. It ain't nearly as good a deal for a guy who apparently uses a lot of melee only, close blast and burst powers, though. You use the one prevents you from usibg the other... But some of it might have to do with not having access to MP; some levels are startlingly poor in choices for either Melee or Ranged powers.

IMO, even if a rogue focuses on one of these two basic tactic, he always has enough option of the other type to get by. A purely melee focused rogue can still throw a mean shuriken at a dazed foe if he has to and a ranged rogue still has a top notch melee attack in sly flourish if he is cornered, so there is no reason to hold back; you should go all out on one of the two basic approach and be confortable that you will still have satisfying option of the other type if it comes to that.

My 2 cents as a gamer.

As a DM, I only care that the PC is legal!

 

[stonegod]

As you have Iron Armbands I assume they do add their damage to the Magic weapon enhancement - so 1 +3 weapon now does +5?

Yes (PH 275).

Will you be moving away from ranged damage then?

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

AC: 28: = 10 + 7 magic armour +6 level + 5 Dex
AC 35 vs Opportunity Attacks: = (28 + 2 race + 5 Cha)
Ref: 25: = 10 + 2 Cape + 5 dex + 6 level + 2 class
Fort: 20 =10 + 2 Cape+2 Str + 6 level
Will: 19 = 10+ 2 Cape + 1 Wis + 6 level

By my reckoning

AC 26 (33 vs OA)
Ref 27
For 21
Will 24

You counted +7 for amor; that's correct if you do it (armor + attribute) like on the standard character sheet. But then you add +3 enhancement, not +5 attribute.

Bottom line : base of 16 + 2 armor + 3 enchancement + 5 dex = 26

The other 3 defenses; you have a +3 amulet, not +2, so they all increase by 1

Ref also has +1 from drowmesh armor, so 27 (it's not calculated on the CG program! Damn, I have to double check the program I use to double check!)

Base 16 + 5 dex +2 class +3 amulet +1 armor = 27

Will defense uses charisma for Garrick. So 24.

 

[The Digger]

Thanks for the comments on Garrick’s levelling up. It’s been very useful so here’s some more questions/comments.

I’m still quite confused by the masterwork armour thing but it does look as if I got it wrong. I kinda took my stats from Stonegod’s as he has the same armour and also had the +7 magic armour bit for AC

As to Garrick’s tactics
Yes I still want him to be mainly ranged.

I concentrated on dagger because of a) his PP ability to Crit on 18-20 with daggers and b) his +1 to hit with daggers. That’s why I took Far Throw - so my daggers would have similar range to the shuriken. I’m still taking Shuriken - just debating about how powerful! I will probably just go for the standard +2 we are being allowed.

As to powers - that is a problem. I do want to concentrate on ranged but it’s a question of what to select. I see him as hitting from distance but also nipping in and out to strike and then leap away. I suppose like a wolf nibbling at the heels of a moose etc. That’s where the class/race AC vs OA come in useful and hence also the added feats to AC.

Both his At Wills can be ranged attacks.

King’s Castle is ranged-enabled but highly situational. Positioning strike I can move in, attack, and move the target up to 5 squares away.

Bait and Switch - melee but again I can shift a long way. Trickster’s blade I believe should probably be melee only, in that that would have a better need for the high boost to AC

Cloud of Steel; a long(ish) ranged close blast - but no ongoing effect. Should I take this or leave my multi attack option to BB and take Rogue’s Luck Instead? Two attacks with an additional +5 to hit on the 2nd attack seems too good to miss out on. Trouble is BB is Daily and CoS is Encounter!!

Blinding Barrage and Easy Target are both good but I might need to hit multiple targets sometimes hence BB taken. (but see Cloud of Steel)

Another major problem is that levels 9 and 11 give no ranged options.


As to getting in and out of combat I have tried to select relevant abilities and items

Tumble, shadow stride, Chameleon, Boots of Striding, Serpentskin armour, Baldric of positioning etc.

Time to go to work unfortunately - back in about 8 hours

Bye

 

[stonegod]

@The Digger: MP adds a few ranged powers IIRC, of course.

I've tweaked Kern. I fixed the AC, Speed, and Reflex manually (all too low), got rid of the extra magic item, took a +2 shuriken for ranged attacks. Note, the To hits of the parrying attacks are 1 low (the fact it is treated as a dagger for Rogue Weapon Talent is not taken into account). Everything else looks right.

Kern is melee only for the most part, and will not tend to jump in and out. He stays in the thick of things and tries to go first to demoralize/crush/etc. Should be different enough from Garrick. Garrick may also have Thievery (I know Kern doesn't). So hopefully enough differentiation.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

That's how I see it (but I know it's not entirely correct that way).

Healer's Lore only applies to cleric powers, and Melora's Tide is technically not a cleric power, as it is not in the cleric list.

Ah, corect. Healer Lore is specifically on cleric power and Melora Tide is a feat power. The brooch still work, though.

So it's still 6 hp of regen per round (4 at paragon + 2 brooch). Still a good deal.

---

Once per encounter you can invoke divine power, filling
yourself with the might of your patron deity.

Only one channel divinity per encounter. Any time you see undeads, turn undead is the clear choice. Selecting the channel divinity feat basically gives you a better option than Divine Fortune on a fight where turn undead is pointless.

Another question: When one gains another use of Channel Divinity through an item, can this only be used for another Channel Divinity power, or also for the same one?

I'd have to see the item in question. If it's worded as regaining use of your channel divinity power, it would apply to any of the three you know.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

@Garrick

Ok, so you want to be ranged. A good part of my confusion comes from the choice of Daggermaster, very much a melee choice. I understand that the 18-20 crit is appealing and applies to range attacks. I'd just point out that if we live to Day 3, it might already be epic time and by then 19-20 crit is the norm anyway. Meanwhile, the encounter and daily of that PP are good but only to a pure melee rogue. Look at Critical opportunity; you must succeed a crit in melee to use it. If you mostly do range, you can easily go the whole day without using it once! Statistically you need to make 4 attacks in melee in one fight to get a 48% chance of using that encounter power. It's likely to be dead weight if you are serious about fighting at range.

An the rerolling of damage is very weak while meditation of the blade is so-so, so basically you only get one solid feature out of the deal. Have you read attentively Master Infiltrator? IMO it is the clear ranged choice since it has every features and powers working for you.

Just saying, read it carefully, I think it's a better ranged fit, especially in the long run (Look at the level 16 feature! Pure goodness if you live by the thrown blade).

PS : If you are willing to let me provide you with some stuff from MP, I could fill in the 'weak ranged option' levels with options from MP.

PPS : Close blast powers are really melee powers, not ranged. Trying to use a close blast 5 from 5 square away leaves friends in the way 80% of the time while limiting the number of monsters you catch in the area. Almost 100% of the time, you end up in melee range in order to use them effectively. I speak from the experience of my combat mage who relies a lot on these blasts. I'm not saying these are not good powers, just that you shouldn't count them as ranged powers as such. You will not use them that way in practice.

PPPS : You might want to consider Fleet Footed for your level 2 utility. Shadow Stride only works when you are already hidden so fleet footed still plays a major role in allowing you to move more than 2 square without the -5 penalty to stealth for that first check. It's pretty much the sister power to Shadow Stride.

 

[Thanee]

Only one channel divinity per encounter. Any time you see undeads, turn undead is the clear choice. Selecting the channel divinity feat basically gives you a better option than Divine Fortune on a fight where turn undead is pointless.

Yep.

I'd have to see the item in question. If it's worded as regaining use of your channel divinity power, it would apply to any of the three you know.

If it was that easy, I wouldn't have to ask.

Medic's Weapon from AV is one such example (there also was another one, I think Symbol of Divinity?).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Power (Daily): Standard Action. Gain one additional use of Channel Divinity for this encounter.

Straightforward ; If you have used channel divinity, you can use it again. If you haven't, you can use it twice in the encounter. As for each use of channel divinity, the second use allows you to choose between the three powers you know.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Edit : Okay, so now I have Mirage, Kern, Nathan and Leyra fully updated in my files.

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stonegod; AFAIK, the fact that the parrying dagger doesn't get a +1 from the rogue class feature is no bug; the +1 is specifically for daggers. I suppose if the parrying dagger had been called a "main gauche" that issue wouldn't come up. The way I see it, the point of this weapon is to serve as a shield boost while still getting the various benefits of two weapons fighting (in your case, +1 to damage, AC and reflex from feats).