Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
3.5 ECLs and drug use at WoTC
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Gromm" data-source="post: 1123834" data-attributes="member: 2245"><p>Look at the ECLs for creatures now. WTF.</p><p>Its beyond insane.</p><p>Lets say our party start at level 5. Seems reasonable enough.</p><p>I want to play a Fire Giant. Ok.</p><p>So I start the game as a Lvl 1 Fighter Fire Giant..... cause Fire Giants are +4 ECL.... I still get all the stuff a Fire Giant does.... for +4 levels... </p><p> </p><p>WHAT THE F*CK ARE THEY SMOKING!?</p><p> </p><p>Look through the Monster Manual, its beyond gayness. Drow are +2 ECL. Which is correct. Know what else is +2 ECL? Minotaurs.</p><p> </p><p><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" />ING MINOTAURS.</p><p> </p><p>Yeah ok I'm a drow fighter and your a Minotaur Fighter.... You get like some spell like abilities and +2 Dex and Int or something. I get+8 Strength, +4 Con, 5 points of natural armor, 3 feats, 10' reach, and 6d8 HD (which alone is worth more than 2 freakin levels).</p><p> </p><p>Yeah thats about right.... <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite11" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll eyes :rolleyes:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":rolleyes:" /> </p><p> </p><p>Its insane the things they have at +4 ECL. Gnolls are +1 now. So are Bugbears (3 HD creatures for god's sake). Ogres? +2 ECL. Ogre Magi, +7. Frost Giant, +4. I mean Ogre Magi ARE cool, but better than a Frost Giant? I don't think so. I fail to see how they could even EVER consider an ECL less than a creature's CR, much less an ECL thats, say less than half a creature's ECL. </p><p>Nymph is ECL +7. Pretty high, but they are powerful. Oh wait I can be a <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" />ing Deva for +8. Oh better yet I'll be a young dragon for +5. I mean... thats fair.</p><p></p><p>So I mean, what exactly ARE they smoking over at WotC. I mean different sized weapons was a stupid idea, but this take the cake. Anyone who trusted them would watch their campaign go to crap instantly. Nowhere, no way, is a FireGiant = 4th level fighter. No. Fricken. Way.</p><p></p><p>Or am I reading this wrong (I've read it 4 times now). It seems like HD should be a factor. Like they should be added in as effective Character Levels. With that things even out alot. FireGiants end up in the high teens, ogres around +6 or 7, Minotaurs are like +8.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Gromm, post: 1123834, member: 2245"] Look at the ECLs for creatures now. WTF. Its beyond insane. Lets say our party start at level 5. Seems reasonable enough. I want to play a Fire Giant. Ok. So I start the game as a Lvl 1 Fighter Fire Giant..... cause Fire Giants are +4 ECL.... I still get all the stuff a Fire Giant does.... for +4 levels... WHAT THE F*CK ARE THEY SMOKING!? Look through the Monster Manual, its beyond gayness. Drow are +2 ECL. Which is correct. Know what else is +2 ECL? Minotaurs. :):):):)ING MINOTAURS. Yeah ok I'm a drow fighter and your a Minotaur Fighter.... You get like some spell like abilities and +2 Dex and Int or something. I get+8 Strength, +4 Con, 5 points of natural armor, 3 feats, 10' reach, and 6d8 HD (which alone is worth more than 2 freakin levels). Yeah thats about right.... :rolleyes: Its insane the things they have at +4 ECL. Gnolls are +1 now. So are Bugbears (3 HD creatures for god's sake). Ogres? +2 ECL. Ogre Magi, +7. Frost Giant, +4. I mean Ogre Magi ARE cool, but better than a Frost Giant? I don't think so. I fail to see how they could even EVER consider an ECL less than a creature's CR, much less an ECL thats, say less than half a creature's ECL. Nymph is ECL +7. Pretty high, but they are powerful. Oh wait I can be a :):):):)ing Deva for +8. Oh better yet I'll be a young dragon for +5. I mean... thats fair. So I mean, what exactly ARE they smoking over at WotC. I mean different sized weapons was a stupid idea, but this take the cake. Anyone who trusted them would watch their campaign go to crap instantly. Nowhere, no way, is a FireGiant = 4th level fighter. No. Fricken. Way. Or am I reading this wrong (I've read it 4 times now). It seems like HD should be a factor. Like they should be added in as effective Character Levels. With that things even out alot. FireGiants end up in the high teens, ogres around +6 or 7, Minotaurs are like +8. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
3.5 ECLs and drug use at WoTC
Top