D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 ECLs and drug use at WoTC

[Gromm]

Look at the ECLs for creatures now. WTF.
Its beyond insane.
Lets say our party start at level 5. Seems reasonable enough.
I want to play a Fire Giant. Ok.
So I start the game as a Lvl 1 Fighter Fire Giant..... cause Fire Giants are +4 ECL.... I still get all the stuff a Fire Giant does.... for +4 levels...

WHAT THE F*CK ARE THEY SMOKING!?

Look through the Monster Manual, its beyond gayness. Drow are +2 ECL. Which is correct. Know what else is +2 ECL? Minotaurs.

ING MINOTAURS.

Yeah ok I'm a drow fighter and your a Minotaur Fighter.... You get like some spell like abilities and +2 Dex and Int or something. I get+8 Strength, +4 Con, 5 points of natural armor, 3 feats, 10' reach, and 6d8 HD (which alone is worth more than 2 freakin levels).

Yeah thats about right....

Its insane the things they have at +4 ECL. Gnolls are +1 now. So are Bugbears (3 HD creatures for god's sake). Ogres? +2 ECL. Ogre Magi, +7. Frost Giant, +4. I mean Ogre Magi ARE cool, but better than a Frost Giant? I don't think so. I fail to see how they could even EVER consider an ECL less than a creature's CR, much less an ECL thats, say less than half a creature's ECL.
Nymph is ECL +7. Pretty high, but they are powerful. Oh wait I can be a ing Deva for +8. Oh better yet I'll be a young dragon for +5. I mean... thats fair.

So I mean, what exactly ARE they smoking over at WotC. I mean different sized weapons was a stupid idea, but this take the cake. Anyone who trusted them would watch their campaign go to crap instantly. Nowhere, no way, is a FireGiant = 4th level fighter. No. Fricken. Way.

Or am I reading this wrong (I've read it 4 times now). It seems like HD should be a factor. Like they should be added in as effective Character Levels. With that things even out alot. FireGiants end up in the high teens, ogres around +6 or 7, Minotaurs are like +8.

 

[Seravin]

You're right, Hit Dice does add in to it. You always add the level adjustment to the hit dice of the monster.

A fire giant is a 19th level character (15HD plus +4 lvl adjust)
A minotaur would be equal to an 8th (6HD plus +2 lvl adjust)

No drugs involved whatsoever.

edited for tone

 

[The Spectrum Rider]

Gromm says:
"its beyond gayness"

Gosh, I always wished *I* could be "beyond gayness"! Not that I wanted to be straight, mind you. I wanted to be beyond straightness, too! Out in the Far Realms Beyond Sexual Orientation, where the old Belts of Gender Change are still plentiful, and elves are as androgynous as sea cucumbers...!

Sorry, my imagination got the better of me. This is not what Gromm meant by "beyond gayness." He just meant "beyond bad." And I must confess, as unrealistic of it is of me, I always find it diappointing that there are people capable of using computers who would, none-the-less, use an expression like this.

And by the way, Gromm: "it's."

The Spectrum Rider

 

[Gromm]

Gromm says:
"its beyond gayness"

Gosh, I always wished *I* could be "beyond gayness"! Not that I wanted to be straight, mind you. I wanted to be beyond straightness, too! Out in the Far Realms Beyond Sexual Orientation, where the old Belts of Gender Change are still plentiful, and elves are as androgynous as sea cucumbers...!

Sorry, my imagination got the better of me. This is not what Gromm meant by "beyond gayness." He just meant "beyond bad." And I must confess, as unrealistic of it is of me, I always find it diappointing that there are people capable of using computers who would, none-the-less, use an expression like this.

And by the way, Gromm: "it's."

The Spectrum Rider

Yes beyond gayness, and beyond all forms of sexuality into a realm of sheer stupidity. Well thats what I thought for a minute there. Sorry about the "it's", I always screw it up even though I know the proper usage.

P.S. Most of this was a cut and paste of a quick email to a friend, hence the general disorder of it all.

Thanks for clearing things up for me. Maybe WotC isn't on crack. Oh wait we still have small longswords. Maybe its just a little bit of crack now and then.

 

[Iscariot]

I tend to think investigating something one has an issue with is always best before one rants. There are several threads below that discuss ECL's and how they are found. As well as Savage Species.

I am sure WotC is glad that did not get the dose of laced drugs you did.

*shakes head* Sad.

 

[WizarDru]

Yes beyond gayness, and beyond all forms of sexuality into a realm of sheer stupidity. Well thats what I thought for a minute there. Sorry about the "it's", I always screw it up even though I know the proper usage.

I think you missed the point, there. Try substituting in "beyond Irishness", "beyond caucasian or blackness" or "beyond female" as examples of why that phrase isn't terribly appropriate, when all you really wanted to say was "beyond stupidity".

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

Moderator?

 

[Camarath]

Or am I reading this wrong (I've read it 4 times now). It seems like HD should be a factor. Like they should be added in as effective Character Levels. With that things even out alot. FireGiants end up in the high teens, ogres around +6 or 7, Minotaurs are like +8.

I am going to assume that you missed this text in the DMG page 172 under Starting Level of A Monster PC.

Add a monster’s level adjustment to its Hit Dice and class levels to get the creature’s effective character level, or ECL

 

[kreynolds]

WHAT THE F*CK ARE THEY SMOKING!?

WTF are you smoking? Go back to the General forum before you hurt yourself. Sheesh.

Totally uncalled for.

 

[Piratecat]

Gromm, not only is it a violation of the rules to "trick" the profanity filter ("f*ck"), we don't tolerate using "gay" as an insult. I know you pasted in an email to a friend, but next time please edit it substantially; what you posted simply wasn't appropriate.

And it's worth pointing out that if you hadn't taken such an outraged tone, people would have pointed out your mistake a lot more politely.

Please feel free to email me if you have any questions about board manners and protocol.