D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] excellent monk/sorcerer option!
two
First Post
Better Options
Better options than taking a level in sorcerer (if you wanna be a Monk):
1) Potions of Enlarge. Cheap, plentiful, enimantly swiggable.
2) UMD. Not exclusive any more (? in 3.5 right?) so have the Monk dump points into this and buy a wand of Enlarge. Not a great option at lower levels.
3) Wondrous Item. Painfully cheap to duplicate a 1st level spell 1, 2, 5 times a day. Get one, make one, etc.
4) At higher levels, a ring of Enlarge (permanant) won't set you back that much at all. In fact, every fighter type should have some way to enlarge themselves for a long time each day.
Conclusion: the spell is probably overpowered when applied to fighter-types, who get better damage, REACH, etc. all out of one lousy 1st level spell.
Better options than taking a level in sorcerer (if you wanna be a Monk):
1) Potions of Enlarge. Cheap, plentiful, enimantly swiggable.
2) UMD. Not exclusive any more (? in 3.5 right?) so have the Monk dump points into this and buy a wand of Enlarge. Not a great option at lower levels.
3) Wondrous Item. Painfully cheap to duplicate a 1st level spell 1, 2, 5 times a day. Get one, make one, etc.
4) At higher levels, a ring of Enlarge (permanant) won't set you back that much at all. In fact, every fighter type should have some way to enlarge themselves for a long time each day.
Conclusion: the spell is probably overpowered when applied to fighter-types, who get better damage, REACH, etc. all out of one lousy 1st level spell.
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
I've been running Enlarge like this as a house rule for 2 years, and actually the reach isn't as big an issue as it appears.
It helps on the very first round of combat, but not after that typically unless there is *very* fluid combat for some reason or there are special circumstances like combat reflexes.
It helps on the very first round of combat, but not after that typically unless there is *very* fluid combat for some reason or there are special circumstances like combat reflexes.
two
First Post
Wow
I find that surprising. I'm not doubting you at all, but if enlarge was easily available, it would be absurdly simple to make a disgusting fighter-type. Greatsword with 10' reach, knockdown, combat expertise, hold the line, improved trip, whatever. Or the infamous spiked chain, now with 15' reach! A large spiked chain wielder scares the bejeeses out of me as a DM; talk about clogging up the middle of combat! I can't even count the number of squares that guy controls!
[I note you said barring special circumstances; in my experience Combat Reflexes is a no-brainer for any reach weapon user (not rare), and would be a no-brainer if Enlarge3.5 was floating around]
The question is, should 1 first level spell make such a big difference? Fighter1 vs. Fighter2, equal in all ways, but then fighter2 gets enlarged... Fighter2 now has a huge advantage, and possibly an overwhelming advantage given reasonable feat choices. Best level 1 spell ever. No other v3.5 level 1 spell has such mojo. None.
And as you noted, a large, grappling monk squeezing bad guys is pretty owieeeee!
I find that surprising. I'm not doubting you at all, but if enlarge was easily available, it would be absurdly simple to make a disgusting fighter-type. Greatsword with 10' reach, knockdown, combat expertise, hold the line, improved trip, whatever. Or the infamous spiked chain, now with 15' reach! A large spiked chain wielder scares the bejeeses out of me as a DM; talk about clogging up the middle of combat! I can't even count the number of squares that guy controls!
[I note you said barring special circumstances; in my experience Combat Reflexes is a no-brainer for any reach weapon user (not rare), and would be a no-brainer if Enlarge3.5 was floating around]
The question is, should 1 first level spell make such a big difference? Fighter1 vs. Fighter2, equal in all ways, but then fighter2 gets enlarged... Fighter2 now has a huge advantage, and possibly an overwhelming advantage given reasonable feat choices. Best level 1 spell ever. No other v3.5 level 1 spell has such mojo. None.
And as you noted, a large, grappling monk squeezing bad guys is pretty owieeeee!
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MarauderX
Explorer
Plane Sailing said:
What about the tumbling monk with combat reflexes? She can roll into a new a new position each round, leaving any baddies that were trying to corner her, and make them pass into her threatened range again. Put the monk up front for the 1st round, then have have her tumble away from any opponents that attack her on her next turn, say into flanking position. Rinse and repeat.
I was building a 4th level monk here and was deciding on a fighter2/monk2 to get some good feats, but the enlarge and mage armor would be much more beneficial. Now I just have to see if I can get it approved by our DM...
Chris Markham
Villager
Well, a Sorcerer Monk could also deliver touch spells along with a physical attack. Such as Chill Touch, Vampiric Touch, Shocking Grasp, etc. Also, could use Alter Self to be a Minotaur (large sized) also....for fun. (not to mention a lot of buffs, some of which last for HOURS per level). Personally, it's what I am currently playing (nice having Mage Armor, WIS bonus, and a high DEX). Then, before a fight Alter Self into Minotaur (for more natural AC bonus). Be sure to take the right feats for hand to hand damage to go up. Once you can do a Prestige Class, Vampire Hunter is cool as it allows you to progress in both spellcasting, and in your Monk hand damage.
I use the tumbling bit all the time. It's so damn high, that even tumbling THROUGH a foe's square is no trouble at all, even with most single digit rolls. Combined with the monk's speed, he can really be anywhere he wants during combat.
I would use Enlarge, but I turned another player on to that tactic, and don't want to steal her thunder. Since our DM has the 3.0 book vs. the 3.5, he goes by this. In 3.0, all of the animal buffs are for HOURS per level, so I basically have most of them on me at the start of an adventure (my Ring of Wizardry helps me have the spell power to do so). So basically, +4 to all of my stats, LOL....
I use the tumbling bit all the time. It's so damn high, that even tumbling THROUGH a foe's square is no trouble at all, even with most single digit rolls. Combined with the monk's speed, he can really be anywhere he wants during combat.
I would use Enlarge, but I turned another player on to that tactic, and don't want to steal her thunder. Since our DM has the 3.0 book vs. the 3.5, he goes by this. In 3.0, all of the animal buffs are for HOURS per level, so I basically have most of them on me at the start of an adventure (my Ring of Wizardry helps me have the spell power to do so). So basically, +4 to all of my stats, LOL....
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Chris Markham
Villager
If you think Enlarge is a too powerful 1st level spell, how about Alter Self (2nd level spell)? With it, you can be Large sized (Minotaur), breathe underwater (Sahaugin), fly (Gargoyle), or melee fight even better (Troglodyte). Or even a nice mix of land fighting, AC, and underwater ability (Lizard Man). These are pretty much my go to forms, and all are humanoids under the spell parameters.
And it's fun replacing my normal human monk figure with these form figures, on the map... I even spent skill points learning the languages of the different forms, so I can adopt such personas, and conduct clandestine business in these forms.
For added fun, SHARE the spell with your familiar! (note, sharing the spell even circumvents the type restriction) LOL.
And it's fun replacing my normal human monk figure with these form figures, on the map... I even spent skill points learning the languages of the different forms, so I can adopt such personas, and conduct clandestine business in these forms.
For added fun, SHARE the spell with your familiar! (note, sharing the spell even circumvents the type restriction) LOL.
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Chris Markham
Villager
Another fun tip, pick the Ascetic Mage feat for your Sorcerer/Monk. Your WIS bonus to AC now switches to a CHA bonus to AC. Your levels stack for determining your natural monk AC. And, you can choose to add a plus to hit and damage to your hand to hand attacks (for 1 round), by spending a spell slot (bonus is the level of spell you spent). Pretty damn nice.....
I did a lot of this stuff on my last few monk builds. An AoO build with reach (via weapon, spell, feat, race or a combination thereof) plus size boost gets ugly. Uglier if you qualify for Kensai.
While it’s never spelled out, some of the resources to build these kinds of PCs are in links in my sig.
My personal approach was to maximize Dex internally to the PC, and use other methods to boost reach. The Githzerai Monk I played started off with a Dex in the 20s (+6 racial bonus) and some of those Anthropomorphic Animals in Savage species get even sillier. With full commitment to an AoO build, your foes tend to accidentally & forgetfully trigger attack after attack.
While it’s never spelled out, some of the resources to build these kinds of PCs are in links in my sig.
My personal approach was to maximize Dex internally to the PC, and use other methods to boost reach. The Githzerai Monk I played started off with a Dex in the 20s (+6 racial bonus) and some of those Anthropomorphic Animals in Savage species get even sillier. With full commitment to an AoO build, your foes tend to accidentally & forgetfully trigger attack after attack.
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