[3.5] Giving players an even bigger reason to peek in the MM...

[Victim]

Those tactics are a general guide for DMs dealing with unfamilar creatures. For any given situation they won't be the best choices. They won't spoil things any more than before if players reading the monster manual unless the DM is too lazy or whatever to use better tactics or if the player is too stupid to figure out how to use the abilities himself.

EDIT:

For example, maybe the Pit Fiend uses its Quickened summon ability, then teleports away. It returns in 20 or so rounds with Unholy Aura, etc running so the group's mass haste. If evidence suggests that only one character can see invis, then it uses its Quicken power to unload a single targeted Meteor Swarm and Power Word Stun into that creature, then goes to town with improved invisibility. With the version in the MM, a DM could annoy characters without True Seeing by making use of its Major Image power. Go invis, then teleport out of detection range. When an image appears, the party has no reason to believe it isn't the Pit Fiend teleporting back. Rinse and repeat. There are a great many tricks to play with a wide variety of spell like powers.

 

[Erastus]

Yes, I agree that I probably would be using more situational tactics, and rarely use the same specific tactics over and over. I don't know... it just looks like a 'dumbing down' of the system.

 

[nikolai]

I think it's neat. I can see a whole new world of "Iron DMlike" tourneys on the boards with people try to design more uber 5 round tactical combinations for specific beasties.

That and designing specific counters - which reminds me a bit of the "How to defeat Balor, diffusing its wealth to increase your status and holdings" thing in the Epic-level Handbooks.

nikolai.

 

[Mark]

I don't know... it just looks like a 'dumbing down' of the system.

Naw. Never hurts to state the obvious when you do not personally know your audience, and most times even if you do since false assumptions can be made. I learn something from each and every reading of the books that I may have missed or perhaps didn't extrapolate on previous readings. "Explicitness" is good.

 

[nikolai]

Also, looking at the pit fiend bit:

Round 0: Unholy aura; activate fear aura, quickened summon Baatezu.

Round 1: Mass hold monster if facing three or more visible, active opponents; otherwise power word stun against unarmored opponents (preferably a spellcaster).

Round 2: Meteor swarm against as many foes as possible, approach worst-injured enemy.

Round 3: Full attack against injured enemy.

Round 4: Continue melee against injured enemy, or power word stun against annoying spellcaster.

Round 5: Repeat from round 1; or greater teleport to safety if endangered.

It works like a quick tactics checklist - with the best options for activating defenses, attacking a group, taking out spellcasters, finishing the wounded, getting away, etc, all spelled out.

I wonder if round 0 functions at the powerup suite/surprise round actions?

nikolai.

 

[EricNoah]

This is one of the ideas I do like from the revision. I bet this stuff is "closed content" though.

 

[Victim]

Yes, I agree that I probably would be using more situational tactics, and rarely use the same specific tactics over and over. I don't know... it just looks like a 'dumbing down' of the system.

I don't think so. It's like training wheels on a bike. If you never deviate from the listed tactics, then yes, it is a problem, but as a training aid for dealing with that monster's list of abilities, the tactics are pretty decent.

 

[DDK]

Any player silly enough to use the MM as a guidebook for counter-tactics is most likely in a group that has a silly enough DM to actually use them all the time without deviation. Each to their own but I think most DM's and most players will realize that relying on such information is futile since you never know if and when or how much of the tactics a DM will use.

I actually hope I get a group one day who does rely on those tactics. All the better to slaughter their PC's by using alternate tactics

 

[Bartholomew Fair]

Giving players an even bigger reason to peek in the MM...

Peek? If you've seen the ad WotC ran recently (Dungeon #98, pp28-29) they've actually started marketing the MM to players as well as DMs.

 

[Erastus]

I don't think so. It's like training wheels on a bike. If you never deviate from the listed tactics, then yes, it is a problem, but as a training aid for dealing with that monster's list of abilities, the tactics are pretty decent.

The 'training wheels on a bike' thing hits it for me. I don't know too many people who don't need training wheels that buy bikes with training wheels. It seems silly and distracting. If they want to appeal to newer or younger gamers, why not just produce a simplified version of the game for them and keep training wheels off the core products?