D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5]Half fiends and half dragons

[Gort]

Okay, the half fiend and half dragon templates in the 3.5 MM say that they gain skill points of *formula* for their dragon/outsider hitdice. But... they don't HAVE any dragon or outsider hitdice... or do they?

What's going on? Is there a mysterious hitdice change somewhere I didn't see?

 

[Darkness]

Type change.

If you apply the half-dragon template to an ogre, its type changes from giant to dragon. Which means it now has 4 dragon hit dice. (HD from classes of course aren't affected.)

- That's how it worked in 3e, at least Darkness

 

[Camarath]

This is for any racial HD the creature has. The creatures type changes from their original type to either Dragon or Outsider thus their skills per level change to the listed value even though the Hit Dice (Half-Fiend only), base attack bonus, and saves remain unchanged. This does not affect HD gained form class levels.

 

[Camarath]

That's how it worked in 3e, at least Darkness

It works the same way in 3.5.

From 3.5 SRD
Skills: A half-dragon gains skill points as a dragon and has skill points equal to (6 + Int modifier) xƒn(HD + 3). Do not include Hit Dice from class levels in this calculation¡Xthe half-dragon gains dragon skill points only for its racial Hit Dice, and gains the normal amount of skill points for its class levels. Treat skills from the base creature¡¦s list as class skills, and other skills as cross-class.


But I think this entry is new in 3.5

From 3.5 SRD
Size and Type: The creature¡¦s type changes to dragon. Size is unchanged. Do not recalculate base attack bonus or saves.

 

[Pax]

Type change.

If you apply the half-dragon template to an ogre, its type changes from giant to dragon. Which means it now has 4 dragon hit dice. (HD from classes of course aren't affected.)

- That's how it worked in 3e, at least Darkness

In 3.5, it also gains the "Augmented" subtype. IOW, it's Type goes to Dragon (Augmented Giant). From the SRD:

Augmented Subtype: A creature receives this subtype whenever something happens to change its original type. Some creatures (those with an inherited template) are born with this subtype; others acquire it when they take on an acquired template. The augmented subtype is always paired with the creature's original type. A creature with the augmented subtype usually has the traits of its current type, but the features of its original type.

That means, for example, that a Lich or Vampire has the type "Undead (Augmented _____)", based on it's prior type. A Telthor (from UE) would be type "Fey (Augmented Animal)". And so on.

I don't actually have the MM2 yet, but I <b>believe</b> this means that Bane weapons will still trigger (a Giant Bane warhammer will still do nasty things to a half-dragon Troll). Spells might still target. That sort of thing.

At least, IMC that's how it'll work. Dunnoif that's what it's SUPPOSED to do, though.

 

[FireLance]

What I found quite nice about 3.5e creature types and templates is that they distinguish between Features, i.e. HD, BAB, base saves and skill points, and Traits, e.g. low-light vision, immunity to critical hits, whether the creature eats, sleeps and breates, etc.

When a creature's type changes due to the addition of a template, it almost always gains the Traits of the new type, but not the Features unless specifically stated.

For example, the Fiendish and Celestial templates do not change any Features. Any template that changes a creature's type to Undead changes Hit Dice to d12, but only the Skeleton and Zombie templates change the BAB, base saves and skill points. The Half-Celestial and Half-Fiend templates only change the base skills points for racial HD, and the Half-Dragon template changes base skill points for racial HD and increases racial HD by one step, to a maximum of d12. However, the templated creature gains the Traits of its new type, whether Magical Beast, Undead, Outsider or Dragon.