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Message: <blockquote data-quote="thecasualoblivion" data-source="post: 4708164" data-attributes="member: 59096">Try to deal with this a bit at a time.Fair enough, though I consider myself a more educated 3.5E player than you might give me credit for. I was a 3.5E player exclusively during the lifetime of that edition(I missed most of 3.0E), was the DM 80% of the time, and I was the guy in our group who, either as player or DM, knew how the system ticked and how to make it dance. I don't think I ever used the words irreparably broken. My meaning was to introduce a number of things that bog down the game. I would use the phrase more hassle then they're worth in place of irreparably broken.I'm not in the target audience of Pathfinder, but I wouldn't say I hate 3.5E. Frustrated maybe, and preferring alternatives(4E and 2E) definitely. I certainly didn't hate it when I was playing it three times a week. As for being immune to flaws, its more of a case of forgiving flaws. People who are 3.5E junkies regularly forgive its flaws. I'm a 4E junkie, and I forgive the fact that the game is nowhere near as fast as I want it to be. Forgiving flaws doesn't lessen them or make them not exist. 3.5Es and 4Es flaws are still flaws. It is the real trick, isn't it. My issues would be this:1. I don't hate 3.5E, and would be interested to look at a fix I could believe in.2. I had enough bad experiences with the system as it is that I'm not impressed by minor tweaks.3. I am a systems guy, somebody who lurked on the CharOp boards, and not only knew the tricks, I understood how and why they were tricks. Any new system or fix is viewed through these eyes, which are by definition a lot more critical.4. Knowing the exploits of 3.5E, when I was playing/DMing it, the specter of the game breaking always hung over my gaming experience. I knew the game could be broken, I knew personally how to break it, and I gamed with people who were more than willing to break it. I witnessed the game being broken on many occasions. I broke it myself in some of those instances, as the competitive spirit in me demanded that if one of the other players was going to break the game, I was going to break it harder. I game with people who played to be spotlight hogs and to "beat" the DM. Personally, I play the game to kick ass, and other players using CharOp to break the game raises the bar for kicking ass. 5. Backwards compatibility--When I played 3.5E, we used a good deal of books. To me, 3.5e just isn't 3.5e without the pile of splats, and I can't imagine playing the game without the Warlock, PHBII, Tome of Battle, or Psionics. Combine this with my systems guru mentality, and the little differences bother me, as would having to tweak books I would plan on using.6. If we were to start up a new game of OGL/3.5E without the Spell Compendium, our group would experience World War III. Fixing spells kind of loses its luster when you have to limit yourself to the PHB/Pathfinder book, or tweak/limit the Spell Compendium. Its been a while since I've looked at the Beta, but while you say you've toned down save or dies, what about save or suck? Save or Suck spells were usually worse offenders then the killing ones.</blockquote>

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