D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Incorporeality now gives Crit immunity!!

[CrimsonTemplar]

You only GET that chance, if you're wielding a magic weapon. Inside an AMF, you don't HAVE a magic weapon, you have a masterwork weapon. Ergo, you have no chance to damage an incorporeal non-undead while within an antimagic field.

Ick.

Supernatural Blow? I don't know the feat/ability. Are you perhaps thinking of Spectral Strike (ELH, epic feat, p66) ... ?

Supernatural Blow is in MotW. In short you choose a Favored Enemy that's immune to critical hits. You may then apply your favored enemy bonus to damage rolls against that type of creature and if you successfully crit them then you deal an additional D6 points of damage for each additional damage die you'd do on a successful crit (e.g. - a Ranger with Supernatural Blow vs Undead wielding a Greataxe would do 1D12 + 2D6 + 3x Str, PA, Favored Enemy & Magic damage bonuses).

Unless, like my example Telthor-Abuse character, they're BUILT for antimagic combat.

With the crit-immunity, I do believe 7th level is reasonable (it'd be slightly strong there, but, I don't really think it's good enough to peg as 8th level).

I wonder, could a creature subject to Incorporeal fight another one w/o the magic weapons & spells, or would they just whiff ineffectually at eachother?

 

[Pielorinho]

+5d6 sneak attack, easily hides from sight, doesn't even MAKE noise, incorporeal touch attacks, incorporeal, and you can't hit it back, because anything that hits incorporeal creatures is cancelled by the Antimagic Field.

Maybe I'm missing something, but how do these incorporeal touch attacks deal any damage? And am I right in thinking that as soon as the staff creates an AMF, the staff drops to the ground since the lizardfolk can no longer hold it, due to the ghost-touch ability being dispelled)?

I'm thinking that this guy attacks me; I run up, grab his cheesiness staff, and teleport my butt out of there. A scry and a teleport later, and Mr. Lizardman is regretting his attack .

Daniel

 

[ruleslawyer]

The lizardfolk has natural attacks, so he doesn't need the staff while in the AMF. It is only Ghost Touch so that he can hold it to activate it in the first place.

Yes, but he can't hold on to the staff while in the AMF, meaning he can't deactivate the AMF, if that actually matters.

In any case, AMF really should be errata'd to affect incorporeal creatures rather than just incorporeal undead.

 

[Pax]

Supernatural Blow is in MotW. In short you choose a Favored Enemy that's immune to critical hits.[/qote]

No, it wouldn't work. Not ONLY are Incorporeal creatures immune to critical hits, they are ALSO seperately and specifically immune to Favored Enemy bonus damage.

I wonder, could a creature subject to Incorporeal fight another one w/o the magic weapons & spells, or would they just whiff ineffectually at each other?

Incorporeal creatures affect each other as if neither were incorporeal.

Pielorinho asks:
Maybe I'm missing something, but how do these incorporeal touch attacks deal any damage? And am I right in thinking that as soon as the staff creates an AMF, the staff drops to the ground since the lizardfolk can no longer hold it, due to the ghost-touch ability being dispelled)?

Telthor template. You get an Incorporeal Touch attack in place of any and all natural weapon attacks; the new Touch deals the same basic damage as the old natural weapon dealt.

So if you can claw for 1d3, then as a telthor, you can incorporeal touch for 1d3.

Yes, you're right about the staff. However, I only used a staff so that it was as Cure as possible. Being a Telthor, FR material is entirely suitable -- so a Rune of Antimagic Field would work. In an epic setting, a rune of persistent antimagic field.

In the case of a once-per-day rune: carve it on a thousand-ton boulder. Then laugh at enemies' attempts to steal it form you. Heh.

 

[LokiDR]

Telthor template. You get an Incorporeal Touch attack in place of any and all natural weapon attacks; the new Touch deals the same basic damage as the old natural weapon dealt.

Sounds more like Telthor is broken than Incorporeality. Is that RoF? Your exploit is based on the apparent oversight of antimagic only winking out incorporeal undead. I assume, after seeing your character, they will call it an oversight.

 

[Spatula]

As a result, IMC, I'll be moving the T&B spell "Ghost Form" up a level or two (7th sounds about right, IMO).

Ghostform should have been 7th or 8th level to begin with, seeing as in 3.0 it was a longer-lasting, combat-capable version of a 7th level spell - Ethereal Jaunt. The only benefit of EJ over GF is that the former makes you invisible. But GF allows the caster to affect the Material Plane, which EJ specifically bars. And GF has 10 times the duration.

 

[James McMurray]

I don't think Telthor is broken. It may be a bit strong at +2 Level Adjustment now that it also grants immunity to crits, sneak attacks, and favored enemy damage. The original LA in Unapproachable East wasn't calculated with that in mind.

Ghostform may seem like a better version of Ethereal Jaunt, but another benefit apart from the invisibility is that Ethereal Jaunt keeps you from getting whacked on by Ghost Touch weaponry.

 

[Pielorinho]

Huh -- Telhor looks pretty uber to me, if that's how it works.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Sounds more like Telthor is broken than Incorporeality. Is that RoF? Your exploit is based on the apparent oversight of antimagic only winking out incorporeal undead. I assume, after seeing your character, they will call it an oversight.

It's from Unapproachable East.

And it has one catch: You are bound to the land. If you move to far from your place, you will start to take damage.

"Oh yes. I'm a telthor. I can use incorporeality and antimagic and so you won't be able to hit me but I can hit you! I'm invincible! I rule all the.... hill here, and a couple of yards beyond that. But not much further, or the hurting starts. But if you have a problem with me, just come here and... what? You just circumvent my hill and raze the rest of Rashemen? YOU BASTARD! COME HERE AND I'LL KILL YOU?.. WHAT? NO! *I* WON'T COME. I CANNOT. HEY! STOP LAUGHING AT ME AND GOING AWAY! FIGHT LIKE A MAN!!!"

 

[Pax]

It's from Unapproachable East.

And it has one catch: You are bound to the land. If you move to far from your place, you will start to take damage.

Um. Telthors are USUALLY bound to the land, but a Durthan's Telthor Companions are bound to the Durthan. And it's just the quickest example of an incorporeal creature which is not also undead.

Also note, it might not be ONE HILL, but could be an entire mountain range, or a whole forest. The size of a telthor's home region is left undefined; certainly less than all of rashemen, but equally certainly more than ONE hill. A couple hills and the valley between 'em, seems more reasonable to me.