D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] MIN/MAX for fun

kaZam

First Post
We have a Shadow Caster with us, although i'm not familiar with that branch.

Plus a cleric.

All 3.5 (plus non-updated 3.0) books are fair game. So I'm assuming most casters are okay. No psions. FR campaign setting.

I think i'm going to do what the previous poster said, and use 3.5 + Complete "" books, and probably FR also. UA is also a choice.
 

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Dandu

First Post
Shadowcasters are fairly weak.

As a wizard, if FR is allowed, you can go Incantatrix and pimp metamagic. If Complete Arcane, you can become an Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil and pimp defense. If Complete Mage is allowed, you can dip into Master Specialist before you really get the opportunity to go into other prestige classes for a few minor abilities.

Trade out your Familiar for the PHB2 ACF that gives you Abrupt Jaunt and you'll have superb defense.
 

StreamOfTheSky

Adventurer
Don't even know what Half-Minotaur is from, but Feral, aside from being stupidly broken, is also from Savage Species, a 3.0 sourcebook. Your DM probably doesn't care about that, but might be worth pointing out.

At the very least, if he's allowing 3.0 material, you should feel free to get +2 DC spell focus feats and energy substitution (sonic), as the 3.0 version allowed you to do. Seems fair to me...
 

Eldritch_Lord

Adventurer
Don't even know what Half-Minotaur is from, but Feral, aside from being stupidly broken, is also from Savage Species, a 3.0 sourcebook. Your DM probably doesn't care about that, but might be worth pointing out.

At the very least, if he's allowing 3.0 material, you should feel free to get +2 DC spell focus feats and energy substitution (sonic), as the 3.0 version allowed you to do. Seems fair to me...

You can use any 3.0 material that hasn't been updated to 3.5, so while it's perfectly fine to use Savage Species stuff in 3.5 (updating DR and such), 3.0 Spell Focus and Energy Substitution have been superseded by their 3.5 counterparts and thus can't be taken.
 

kaZam

First Post
Update: So today the 4th level, 36 STR Half-minotaur raged (giving him 40 str) and was able to dish out 50 damage in one swing. I was able to cast magic missle :p
Anyways,

Incantatrix I've seen, and it's pretty nice. Master Specialist i'm not familiar with,
and OMG Abrupt Jaunt is insane. First time i've seen it also. Good bye toad, hello Jaunt. Eldritch_lord is correct as far as our DM is concerned.
 

Dandu

First Post
Master Specialist is from Complete Mage.

Here's what you do if you want to powergame your character to compete with the minotaur: you have to play a different game altogether. Forget about damage dealing, embrace battlefield control, save or lose spells, and utility.

Don't cast Magic Missile, cast Grease. Don't learn Scorching Ray, take Glitterdust and Web. Don't use Fireball, use Stinking Cloud and Sleet Storm. Forget about Cone of Cold, use Wall of Stone.

The only good Evocation spells are the ones that do things other than damage: Resilient Sphere, Ice Storm, Wall of Ice Contingency, etc.

You must dictate the terms of engagement and control how the enemy fights you. Leave the grunt work for others.

Here's an idea:

If you're new to DnD, try a sorcerer and kit him out with effective spells so you won't have to juggle around a spellbook. I've got a lot of builds that you might find useful.
 
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Persiflage

First Post
Damn it all, wish I'd seen this thread sooner... I'm actually playing a Focussed Conjurer/Beguiler/Ultimate Magus with the Early Qualification feat at the moment, doing all the things that Dandu describes.

Do what Dandu says. Do it hard. Battlefield Control for the win, every time: damage-dealing spells are - with a few notable exceptions - not only ineffectual, but the major cause of the 2-minute adventuring day. With the likes of Grease or Glitterdust along with Sculpt Spell, you can cast one spell at the beginning of a battle, do nothing else unless you really need to, and never for a moment feel bad about it. :D





EDIT: I meant to say, the other good thing about Dandu's approach is that as your DM has clearly got his love thang on for melee mayhem by the PC's, you too will get a lot of love for making it even more effective. Everyone's a winner baybeh, yeah!
 

pawsplay

Hero
If you want to keep it simple, the easiest way to break the game is to look for ways to overcome a class's natural weaknesses.

Sorcerer: Basically, you give up versatility for the ability to cast the same spells over and over. So I say, purposefully pick all the spells that allow you to do a zillion things. The shadow spells and Summon Monster are at the top of the list, but have you ever considered how many different ways you can abuse a high damage ranged touch attack? Scorching rays and orb spells can allow you to quickly and easily neutralize enemy casters, destroy weapons, open doors, etc. Telekinesis can disarm traps, hurl enemies into hazards or their own area effect spells, neutralize low-Will melee opponents, trip charging opponents, create decoys, and deploy alchemical items.

Cleric: Just pick any two domains that let you do stuff that has nothing to do with the run-of-the-mill clericly. Ex: Destruction allows the cleric to kill things a lot, Magic allows you to be a backup evoker or transportation specialist, Fire allows you to become a damage dealer, etc.

Fighter: Stuck at home with nothing to do? Take two levels of Rogue and sink every last skill point into Use Magic Device. Plus, you get evasion. Now you are a utility caster. Receive a diploma now for experience you have already earned.

Another approach is to purposefully break the usual numeric limits. The half-minotaur lolth-touched thing is one approach, but not the only one. As a full caster, you can identify individual spells that break the usual ranges. Telekinesis and Grasping Hand both use your caster level in place of your base attack bonus, and grappling and other manuevers generally ignore armor in the first place. Can you think of any ways to get your caster level higher than your character level? Yeah, me, too.
 

Dandu

First Post
Your recommendations do not actually break the game.

Here are things that break the game:

Planar Binding (Mirror Mephits, Nightmares, etc). Astral Projection. Gate. Polymorph/Polymorph Any Object/Shapechange. Time Stop. Plane Shift (when used to go to a plane with the Slow Time trait). Contact Other Plane. Mind Blank. Freedom of Movement. Holy Word. Divine Power.

That's just scratching the surface of what's broken.
 
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pawsplay

Hero
Well, what character level of breakage are we talking about? Gate can be hilarious, but it's not low-lying fruit.

And as for the mephit thing, are dirty tricks allowed? Summon Monster IV can be used to summon a Mephit (any)... I choose a Paragon Pseudonatural (epic) Dust Mephit, thank you.
 

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