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3.5 Perform, Diplomacy
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<blockquote data-quote="Technik4" data-source="post: 990055" data-attributes="member: 7211"><p>But honestly you must be kidding. Who would have in fact even noticed? I will admit, when I made a character that used perform I bought the individual performances I wanted. This was because the system presented in the phb was fairly incomprehensible to me, not in that I couldn't comprehend what was intended, but that I couldn't comprehend how it made it past playtesting. When I dmed, I talked with the group and it was unanimously agreed that perform should work like craft, knowledge, and profession.</p><p></p><p>Ok, lets talk mechanics. Mechanically there is no other skill in the game (3e) in which after spending 1 skill point you get a return of more than...lets say 6. That 5th point going into bluff gives a lot of synergies. Except perform. Even a 10th level bard who places a point in perform gets a 13 point return on his investment. Honestly, if you work the mechanic into the game at ALL, you would see how unbalancing it is. In effect, it <em>cheapens</em> perform as a skill, and performers as a group. Its ludircous.</p><p></p><p>In 3e it was very easy to buy an item to pump a skill (with a lenient or openminded dm). But honestly, why buy the cow when you get the milk for free? I mean, every rank you put in perform pays for itself and a new skill AND then some. If this mechanic were applied to anything else then all you would hear is "Broken!!!", "Munchkin", etc. The fact that it applied to a skill with little bearing on the game seems to me the only reason it made it to the final draft of the game.</p><p></p><p>There are many other "mechanical" ways peform can be easily worked into an adventure (which would be kind if said Dm had a bard player). 3e is about options and choices remember? Where is the choice in perform? Choosing a new performance every level? Heh.</p><p></p><p>Bards never had to make any choices in 3e. Compare any 2 high level bards. I bet they had nearly the same peformance types and nearly the same bonus in that skill. Which means that equal level bards were equally good at singing, dancing, playing the lute, flute, viola, and organ, as well as acting on stage, comedic performances, acting, songwriting, poetry, etc etc.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>Youre kidding right? I know people that are awesome at the trumpet, but would I give them a chance to play a violin in front of an audience? What about a tuba or a trombone? Acting and dance are 2 of the subskills in 3.5 already but I wouldnt say that either are good comedians or orators. Maybe they can bluff their way a little, being good actors. All the instruments should be in categories imo (after all crafting weapons and armors falls into 2 categories, as does fletching or pottery!).</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>Really? Well what about when you discover a magical lute? I mean, its a magical instrument shouldnt a bard be able to use it? Under 3e: Damn right they should, if for some reason they don't have "Perform (Lute)" this level, by next level they will have it equal with all the other ridiculous performance types theyve acquired. Under 3.5: Well, it looks like someone has a new instrument to learn. By next level they could be fairly competent (if devoting 6+int skill points into it).</p><p></p><p>I guess there are some mechanical differences. Granted, Im not trying to say that a large portion of the game revolves around this skill, I'm just saying there could be some very good reasons for choosing different performances, which is exactly what the new version forces you to do (without penalizing you for your choice!).</p><p></p><p>Technik</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Technik4, post: 990055, member: 7211"] But honestly you must be kidding. Who would have in fact even noticed? I will admit, when I made a character that used perform I bought the individual performances I wanted. This was because the system presented in the phb was fairly incomprehensible to me, not in that I couldn't comprehend what was intended, but that I couldn't comprehend how it made it past playtesting. When I dmed, I talked with the group and it was unanimously agreed that perform should work like craft, knowledge, and profession. Ok, lets talk mechanics. Mechanically there is no other skill in the game (3e) in which after spending 1 skill point you get a return of more than...lets say 6. That 5th point going into bluff gives a lot of synergies. Except perform. Even a 10th level bard who places a point in perform gets a 13 point return on his investment. Honestly, if you work the mechanic into the game at ALL, you would see how unbalancing it is. In effect, it [i]cheapens[/i] perform as a skill, and performers as a group. Its ludircous. In 3e it was very easy to buy an item to pump a skill (with a lenient or openminded dm). But honestly, why buy the cow when you get the milk for free? I mean, every rank you put in perform pays for itself and a new skill AND then some. If this mechanic were applied to anything else then all you would hear is "Broken!!!", "Munchkin", etc. The fact that it applied to a skill with little bearing on the game seems to me the only reason it made it to the final draft of the game. There are many other "mechanical" ways peform can be easily worked into an adventure (which would be kind if said Dm had a bard player). 3e is about options and choices remember? Where is the choice in perform? Choosing a new performance every level? Heh. Bards never had to make any choices in 3e. Compare any 2 high level bards. I bet they had nearly the same peformance types and nearly the same bonus in that skill. Which means that equal level bards were equally good at singing, dancing, playing the lute, flute, viola, and organ, as well as acting on stage, comedic performances, acting, songwriting, poetry, etc etc. Youre kidding right? I know people that are awesome at the trumpet, but would I give them a chance to play a violin in front of an audience? What about a tuba or a trombone? Acting and dance are 2 of the subskills in 3.5 already but I wouldnt say that either are good comedians or orators. Maybe they can bluff their way a little, being good actors. All the instruments should be in categories imo (after all crafting weapons and armors falls into 2 categories, as does fletching or pottery!). Really? Well what about when you discover a magical lute? I mean, its a magical instrument shouldnt a bard be able to use it? Under 3e: Damn right they should, if for some reason they don't have "Perform (Lute)" this level, by next level they will have it equal with all the other ridiculous performance types theyve acquired. Under 3.5: Well, it looks like someone has a new instrument to learn. By next level they could be fairly competent (if devoting 6+int skill points into it). I guess there are some mechanical differences. Granted, Im not trying to say that a large portion of the game revolves around this skill, I'm just saying there could be some very good reasons for choosing different performances, which is exactly what the new version forces you to do (without penalizing you for your choice!). Technik [/QUOTE]
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