D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 Perform, Diplomacy

[The Spectrum Rider]

Does anyone know how the Perform skill is going to change in 3.5? In Dragon #309, it says "Perform doesn't force you to list a new method every time you pick up a rank." That's very smoothly written, almost as though you CAN list a new method each time, you're just not FORCED to - but I doubt if that's what's going on. Will each Perfrom skill be independent, like Craft, Knowledge, and Profession?

Also, I'll admit to being surprised to read, in official WotC print, that the Wild Empathy class ability is going to depend on Diplomacy, instead of Handle Animal. I guess the ranger who is good with animals but bad with people doesn't make much sense in that system.

The Spectrum Rider

 

[coyote6]

Will each Perfrom skill be independent, like Craft, Knowledge, and Profession?

Sort of. They've split it into 7 or 8 skills (like Perform (Sing), Perform (stringed instruments), etc.).

(I don't like this change, for reasons mentioned elsewhere.)

Also, I'll admit to being surprised to read, in official WotC print, that the Wild Empathy class ability is going to depend on Diplomacy

It's not. It's going to function like Diplomacy, in that the ranger/druid/whatever will make a check (ISTR reading that it's level based, not skill-based at all) against a DC that's determined by the animal's attitude.

All these questions and more can be answered here, thanks to roytheodd, ShadowStar, Andy Collins & other WotC folks, and ENWorld's new Grand Consolidator Of All Things 3.5e, Olgar Shiverstone.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re: 3.5 Perform, Diplomacy

Sort of. They've split it into 7 or 8 skills (like Perform (Sing), Perform (stringed instruments), etc.).

(I don't like this change, for reasons mentioned elsewhere.)

Echo that!

Bards suddenly have to spend a whole lot more skill points!

(Sure, they can get away with one form to do their Bardic Music tricks. But when I play a Bard, I expect to be able to sing, dance, and play at least four instruments...)

-Hyp.

 

[IanB]

As a musician, I know that having perform be one big combined skill is pretty silly.

It would be like saying OK, every rank in Craft you get, pick an entirely new craft skill you're good at!

 

[The Spectrum Rider]

I actually had a house rule: when you get a new rank of Perform, you get a number of subskill ranks equal to your new rank. (So, when you get your 4th rank, you get 4 subskill points.) You can distribute the subskill ranks among old Perform subskills and up to one new one. Normal skill max limits apply to subskills as well.

I had alos read before that Wild Empathy would like LIKE Diplomacy, using a level check + Cha bonus, and I like that. But in Dragon 309 it says "Rangers and druids are now the sole practitioners of what used to be called Animal Empathy (now a class ability called Wild Empathy), but they need ranks in Diplomacy to make it work effectively."

Hopefully Dragon is out-of-date. Or just wrong.

The Spectrum Rider

 

[IanB]

I believe that Dragon thing has already been confirmed to be in error.

 

[coyote6]

As a musician, I know that having perform be one big combined skill is pretty silly.

That's okay. Lots of D&D skills are pretty silly, looking at it from the real world.

Heck, IIRC, in d20 Modern, all use of a computer is one skill. That covers it all -- programming databases, writing games, hacking servers, etc. That's silly. Yet, it's a game, where skills are relatively expensive and difficult to get at useful levels. So it's okay.

Having Perform be one skill is fine. If you don't want your bard to know 20 different instruments, don't pick different instruments; pick "Electric guitar, [some other instruments], power chord, kickass riff," and so forth.

And the new setup is still silly -- all stringed instruments use the same skill, for example. It's just less playable.

 

[coyote6]

I believe that Dragon thing has already been confirmed to be in error.

It has. Jesse Decker or someone else from Dragon piped up & said so, IIRC.

 

[IanB]

I don't know that it is less playable. I find it patently ridiculous that the super musician with 15 ranks of perform goes up a level and is suddenly an expert at dancing.

Considering that bards get 6 skill points anyway, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect that they might spend some on both, say, singing and stringed instruments, or epic poetry and juggling, or whatever they want their personal performance idiom to be.

 

[Skaros]

Here's a vote hugely in favor of the new perform skill.

Not only does it remove the ridiculous notion that you know every instrument equally well, but it allows bards to really think about the instruments they will use, and build it into their character through skill choices.

Player choice: Have a couple of types of performance you are maxed out on, or have a lot of types you are not maxed out on.

Skaros