[3.5] Revision Spotlight - Druid class

One think I am curious about...Animal empathy is gone?

If so how will this affect Tamer of Beasts Prestige class as one of the requirements is Skill focus Animal Empathy and 10 ranks in Animal empathy.

Soo... what happens to that Prestige class?

(I ask cause I play Living greyhawk and I am taking my druid to that prestige class. So I am curious to what people here think on it)
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Xastalask said:
One think I am curious about...Animal empathy is gone?

If so how will this affect Tamer of Beasts Prestige class as one of the requirements is Skill focus Animal Empathy and 10 ranks in Animal empathy.

Soo... what happens to that Prestige class?

(I ask cause I play Living greyhawk and I am taking my druid to that prestige class. So I am curious to what people here think on it)
well the skill and skill focus will be on Animal Handeling not animal empathy.
 


The question one has to ask is, with a limited amount of development time and page space, does it make sense to create a class whose only role is a weak one and comes up a rarely in a campaign. The only way to balance a limited role is to give a great degree of power, or, the better option, makes sure its capabilities work for different roles.
I think one of the problems with the druid, bard, monk and ranger is that perhaps, even if it was just subconciously, the designers designed them in such a way as if they're there to make the core classes look good by comparison. It doesn't help that they're not considered specialist roles by the design team, as evidenced by the quotes of considering them "tweener" classes - what was that quote? "Versatility just means more ways to suck."

You only need look at the amount of design elegance and thought put into the cleric as opposed to the druid in the original 3E version to suggest that this class had less thought put into it, and was perhaps always designed to play second fiddle. How much effort does it require to design the druid and ranger out of wilderness setting dependence, without obfuscating their archetypes? If Diablo II can do it, then perhaps so should D&D...

Finally, the spontaneous casting further emphasises WotC's vision of the druid as the amazing magical travelling menagerie show. Spontaneously summon some animals, wildshape into a bear with your animal companion at your side - instant furries everywhere, and not nearly how I envision a druid's modus operandi. I reckon swapping out spontaneous summons for spontaneous healing and reducing the level of healing spells to cleric levels is the go - druids could use the party support utility (it definitely fits the archetype - what's more natural than healing?), and clerics need the help.
 
Last edited:

rounser said:

I think one of the problems with the druid, bard, monk and ranger is that perhaps, even if it was just subconciously, the designers designed them in such a way as if they're there to make the core classes look good by comparison. It doesn't help that they're not considered specialist roles by the design team, as evidenced by the quotes of considering them "tweener" classes - what was that quote? "Versatility just means more ways to suck."

You only need look at the amount of design elegance and thought put into the cleric as opposed to the druid in the original 3E version to suggest that this class had less thought put into it, and was perhaps always designed to play second fiddle. How much effort does it require to design the druid and ranger out of wilderness setting dependence, without obfuscating their archetypes? If Diablo II can do it, then perhaps so should D&D...

Exactly. Do you think i was disagreeing with that point? :)
 

Originally posted by jasamcarl Symantics. Power and role are not mutually exclusive.

Right, role and power are not mutually exclusive. But nor are they necessarily the same thing (and therein lies understanding the value of semantics).

A powerful character inherently has a role with the party and vice versa.

In using the term "power" to refer to physical might, then that's just a qualifier for certain roles. Not every class needs to be good at a DOT test. As to the more subtle denotation concerning influence over others (another issue relating to semantics), you would be correct; having a role at which you excel above all others does indeed provide you with some influence in the group. The "tweener" classes tend to excel at little or nothing, and thus have limited appeal (I thought you were speaking along the same general lines, so I'm not sure what to make of your disagreeability here).

The question one has to ask is, with a limited amount of development time and page space, does it make sense to create a class whose only role is a weak one and comes up a rarely in a campaign. The only way to balance a limited role is to give a great degree of power, or, the better option, makes sure its capabilities work for different roles. How is the new build of the druid unbalanced? How do the revisions to the class compromise the 'flavor' or role that you allude to? [/B]

I don't recall alluding to any flavor, or saying that the revised druid was unbalanced. I just made a fairly simple statement regarding character design: the role's the thing, be it dishing out damage or providing a line of defense or healing or disarming traps or tracking or what have you. It's obvious really, but oft overlooked nonetheless.

I like the look of the new druid enough to give him a shot and see what he's about, but he may be about nothing. Then again, that as-yet-unseen spell list could do the trick. For instance, I know the druid's receiving all of the anibuff spells, and that the anibuffs will have "mass" versions, so perhaps he'll be a useful dispenser of buffing spells. Bufing is a distinct role, one I think a druid would do well at given the right spell repertoire (Stoneskin springs to mind).
 
Last edited:

Felon said:


Right, role and power are not mutually exclusive. But nor are they necessarily the same thing (and therein lies understanding the value of semantics).



In using the term "power" to refer to physical might, then that's just a qualifier for certain roles. Not every class needs to be good at a DOT test. As to the more subtle denotation concerning influence over others (another issue relating to semantics), you would be correct; having a role at which you excel above all others does indeed provide you with some influence in the group. The "tweener" classes tend to excel at little or nothing, and thus have limited appeal (I thought you were speaking along the same general lines, so I'm not sure what to make of your disagreeability here).



I don't recall alluding to any flavor, or saying that the revised druid was unbalanced. I just made a fairly simple statement regarding character design: the role's the thing, be it dishing out damage or providing a line of defense or healing or disarming traps or tracking or what have you. It's obvious really, but oft overlooked nonetheless.

I like the look of the new druid enough to give him a shot and see what he's about, but he may be about nothing. Then again, that as-yet-unseen spell list could do the trick. For instance, I know the druid's receiving all of the anibuff spells, and that the anibuffs will have "mass" versions, so perhaps he'll be a useful dispenser of buffing spells. Bufing is a distinct role, one I think a druid would do well at given the right spell repertoire (Stoneskin springs to mind).

I misunderstood you then. We are on the same page. Power is the ability to contribute to a party overcoming challenges, not strictly damage output, correct?

But how would disagreeing with someone constitute being arbitarily dismissive?
 
Last edited:

jasamcarl said:
I misunderstood you then. We are on the same page. Power is the ability to contribute to a party overcoming challenges, not strictly damage output, correct?

Exactly.

But how would disagreeing with someone constitute being arbitarily dismissive?

You're fast. I actually edited out the sentence about "dismissiveness" almost immediately after posting.

I read an air of dismissiveness into your opening remark on semantics. The term "semantics" is commonly bandied around in order to trivialize someone's remarks as focusing on minutia. It's a most unfortunate habit IMO, as many disagreements result from a breakdown in understanding minor connotations. No harm done, eh?
 
Last edited:

Wildshape/Polymorph

I was going back through some of the old Dragon Revision Alerts, and came across the general abilities of Polymorph (Dragon #307)

Polymorph does NOT grant you any extraordinary, spell-like, or supernatural abilities of the chosen creature. The only listed exception is that or extraordinary attack forms (the troll's Rend ability is given as an example of an extraordinary attack action).

It lasts only 1 min/level, also.

This should help with determining the limits of Wildshape.
 


Remove ads

Top