3.5 Rules, 1E Feel
- Thread starter Reynard
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Orius
Legend
If I'm not mistaken, I believe that is how the rules for 3.x were always supposed to work. In fact, 3.x went beyond the traditional "no more than 2 rings" and codified equipment slots as a way of limiting magic item use.
You could add in some old-school rules like drinking more than one potion at once can have unpredictable and dangerous results, or that merely looking at the text on a cursed scroll triggers the curse (I always use the latter).
Magic items in treasure should be totally random. Stick with the minor/medium/major categories, since they give a general idea of how powerful an item is supposed to be, and will help to prevent the PC from getting something too overpowered (naturally, you can just override this if you want). Also, include the occasional cursed item to keep them on their toes, don't just go with the DMG cursed list, but use the cursed stuff from the older books. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the insta-kill curses, that's in poor taste IMO, but that's your call. Also, run cursed items like they were in the old days, the items will identify as something beneficial, but the curse takes effect when the item is activated (I do this in my campaigns as well).
There's no reason to totally dump lots of abilities on weapons. If you don't like that it feels video-gamey or some such, just make every item that has more than 1 or 2 special abilities a unique item with a history. Or maybe such weapons are intelligent. Don't mix the abilities nilly-willy either, put them together so they feel logical with the weapon's history. This is the balance I prefer in my campaigns; basic +1, +2, maybe +3 weapons and armor are relatively ordinary and common, as are the weapons with a single ability, like say flaming swords. +4 and greater, as well as powerful weapons are rare and often unique. Of course you could always throw the occasional oddball in there and chalk it up to another bat
crazy wizard -- there's always lots of those in the backgrounds of old-school settings.For magic item creation, substitute the rules for power components for spells instead of XP cost, and make the PCs gather the components they'll need. You could look at the 2e books Spells and Magic and High Level Campaigns as well, since they had some very good guidelines for item creation. I'd say stay lenient with one-shot stuff like potions and scrolls or limited stuff like wands (though maybe have fewer charge on wands, maybe 20).
That's how I handle magic item shops. Random selection, max weapon/armor bonus +2 or +1 with a single ability. Scrolls usually not higher than 3rd or 4th level. No medium or major maigc items for sale. PCs likely won't always find what they're looking for, but might find something unusual and interesting. If you're feeling very generous, you could even slip in an item or two they might find useful on the adventure, but don't know that. And haggle the prices, by the book pricing isn't goingg to happen often.
If you use Prestige Classes, my suggestion would be to use stuff that definitely harkens back to 1e stuff. Go through the DMG and Complete books, see which ones are like that and use them, or come up with your own classes. Remember that PrCs are supposed to be at the DM's discretion, and the DM decides which ones are available, and the DM is also encouraged to create PrCs which fit the setting.
2e? I know cat's grace first appeared in Spells and Magic, but I thought (bull's) strength went all the way back to 1e? If not, you could handle the spells like 2e did, that is classes benefit differently from the spells, i.e, a fighter gets a much bigger boost from bull's strength than a wizard does.
I agree that sticking close to core is probably best. Avoid 3.x core classes like Warlock and such that don't feel like classic D&D. In fat, I'd say stick with just the PHB classes except the Sorcerer, which should be dropped as well. Any optional core class that has a strong sword & sorcery feel to it that wouldn't feel out of place as an optional 1e class could stay if the DM wishes it.
Assuming the group likes psionics to begin with; it was always optional and somewhat controversial. Go with the 3e rules if you want psionics because of the balance.
I agree with this. Get rid of the really strange 3.x gear, especially if it's twinky. Maybe keep some of the racial weapons for flavor, or at least design ones that fit better with a classic game. I've always liked the idea of orc shotputs myself, though this is really a matter of taste.
I don't agree with adding lots of obscure polearms. Just because Gary liked 'em doesn't mean they'll actually add anything to the campaign. In my experience, few people really do much with polearms on their PCs except for stuff like halberds or pikes, and it's probably because they have crappy damage, slow weapon speeds, and lacked the "cool" factor of stuff likes swords and axes. Personally, I like how 3e cleaned up equipemnt lists by simplifying weapon selection and paring out a lot of redundant stuff that wasn't statistically different; downside was that they went with a lot of dumb-ass double weapons or inane stuff like mercurial weapons.
That's always been my view on the issue. It's not so much the rules themselves, it's how the game is run.
Also rein in some of the 3.x specific stuff that's cheesy. For one is the 15-minute workday. I definitely don't like players pulling that. Agree with your players before hand which elements of 3.x gameplay isn't going to be used, and abide by it.
I don't see anything wrong with using monster templates myself, but I agree with not having tons of weird ass half-hybrids of everything. Monsters shouldn't be a big deal for the DM, just use what you want to use.
Ulrick
First Post
Wandering monsters helps take care of the 15-minute workday. At first it might hurt the PCs, but it will teach them not to blow all their powers in one or two encounters.
Y'know...there was at least one huuuuuge thread last year about the 15 minute workday, and in one, Hussar and I (among others) were discussing my "controversial" statement that I have never seen it.
I explained why our (mostly veteran) group didn't play that way...but I hadn't considered how wandering monsters- so common in previous editions- might have helped shape our playstyle in that regard.
Definitely food for thought.
One thing that is often forgotten or misunderstood, I think, is that there's a difference between "wandering monsters" and "random encounters" -- and there's room for both in a campaign.
"Wandering monsters" are exactly that -- monsters that move about an area rather than stay in their lair. If level 3 has a displacer beast on it, chances are the displacer beast should be a wandering monster. It's lair might be a hard to reach cave in the dungeon, but if the PCs encounter it, it's likely because it is on the prowl for food. And if the PCs are familiar with the concept, after encountering the beast, they likely know enough to go hunting for its lair (where its treasure is going to be found). this serves to motivate continued exploration of the dungeon level, rather than just looking for the most direct route to level 4.
"Random encounters" on the other hand are just that -- random. Whether it is a dungeon or a wilderness area, random encounters represent the most commonly encounters found in the area -- and not all are monster encounters. Random encounters along a road includes peddlers and pilgrims, encounters in dungeons include other adventuring parties, and encounters in cities include trollops and strumpets. The old school "% in lair" raiting gave the DM an extra dimension to work with when an encounter came up, aside from the basic "number appearing" -- did the PCs run into an orc raiding party, or have the stumbled upon an orc village? Is the dragon out hunting for food, or do the PCs catch it sleeping atop its hoard.
I was re-reading my 3.5 DMG in preparation for the campaign, and I was heartened to find all the random encounter charts therein. I hadn't read the 3.5 DMG in some time and had been reading the 4E more lately before I decided running it just wasn't for me. I had forgotten that while many aspects of the PC creation/advancement and the combat minigames of D&D changed in 3.5, much of the "traditional" D&D flavor is still in there.
Ultimately, I think the key to running 3.5 with a "1E feel" is, as others have suggested, to simply run it like 1E. That, and keeping things close to core plus some 3rd party stuff that might feel like the "old school"*, will probably be my most efficient tools, rather than trying to house rule in 1E-isms.
*Speaking of, anyone have any experience with Mongoose's "Classic Play" series -- I was particularly interested in the book on dominions and such. Also, what about EGG's series of hardbacks?
I honestly think the 15 minute adventuring day only happens if the DM promotes it. I've accidentally done so myself with high-mid to low-high level 3.5 characters and its disastrous -- the ability to plan and then nova makes characters above say 11th level into unstoppable juggernauts of destruction. D&D isn't balanced for that play paradigm, so it is no wonder that people complain about it. But rather than blaming the system, they ought to look at their own playstyle and the DM in particular.
Orius
Legend
Well, I didn't promote it. I used sometime like a wandering monster to try to fight it. Basically, the players blew thorugh their spells, then tried to hole up in a room. I didn't let them rest though, instead I had the ethereal filcher that laired in the dungeon harass them as they tried to sleep. In the end it was basically their attempt to pull the 15-minute workday annoyed me, and my filcher annoyed them.
So yeah, wandering monsters might help combat it, but you also run the risk of the players seeing it as a punishment. It's probably best to outlaw it from the start before it gets engrained in the campaign.
Its only punishment if it seems to be in direct reaction to their "going nova."
If the harrasment seems to make sense, they won't be able to accuse you of punishing them.
Its the difference between having something occur that makes sense- a series of encounters happening when they try to encamp in an area that you already described as being "high-traffic" versus critters that seemingly pop up from nowhere merely to harangue them.
Yeah, its a balancing act, but IMHO, your players will enjoy it more in the long run, and you'll feel better about yourself as a DM for not arbitrarily outlawing "sensible" behavior.
Believe me, when the DM had us go through 6+ encounters in RttToEE without the party getting to rest, it was rough, but we felt like we had accomplished something. We were thoroughly challenged and got through it, our victories felt like victories.
I've spontaneously run my old school 3.5 campaigns with several of these ideas.
I'd modified this to be slightly more liberal:
1) Core Rules to me means PHB, DMG, Legends & Lore, and the Monster Manuals plus Fiend Folio, plus Net Book of Feats with DM approval (based on power rating and feel).
2) There is a magic shop in my campaign (actually, shared by 3 campaigns). The inventory is about 30 items, and rarely changes other than by a party selling or buying from it. This is mostly so PC's can cash out items, and get some minor items like potions and scrolls. By having all items be specific -- rather than anything worth up to 2000 gp or something -- I limit what's available and keep it someone fantastical.
4) I don't ban Prestige Classes outright. The ones in the DMG, I'm OK with. I don't have to discourage multi-classing, my players just aren't that interested in it.
5) Heck yes on banning half dragons!
The other stuff I see that's real good advice in this thread:
- the game stops at/around 12th level
- ban silly equipment (IMC, spiked armor)
- play an old school setting (Greyhawk, Realms, Blackmoor, or City State/Wilderlands)
- run old school style adventures (the best sources were WOTC, Paizo, Dungeon, Goodman, and Necromancer)
I'd modified this to be slightly more liberal:
1) Core Rules to me means PHB, DMG, Legends & Lore, and the Monster Manuals plus Fiend Folio, plus Net Book of Feats with DM approval (based on power rating and feel).
2) There is a magic shop in my campaign (actually, shared by 3 campaigns). The inventory is about 30 items, and rarely changes other than by a party selling or buying from it. This is mostly so PC's can cash out items, and get some minor items like potions and scrolls. By having all items be specific -- rather than anything worth up to 2000 gp or something -- I limit what's available and keep it someone fantastical.
4) I don't ban Prestige Classes outright. The ones in the DMG, I'm OK with. I don't have to discourage multi-classing, my players just aren't that interested in it.
5) Heck yes on banning half dragons!
The other stuff I see that's real good advice in this thread:
- the game stops at/around 12th level
- ban silly equipment (IMC, spiked armor)
- play an old school setting (Greyhawk, Realms, Blackmoor, or City State/Wilderlands)
- run old school style adventures (the best sources were WOTC, Paizo, Dungeon, Goodman, and Necromancer)
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