3.5 Scoops Discussion

[gariig]

and this time with no Ambidexterity feat to close the gap between off-hand and primary hand.

3.5e two-weapon fighting feat is like taking 3.0e two-weapon fighting+ambi, I believe.

Gariig

 

[babomb]

Based on ShadowStar's info, here is the Monk BAB chart, with and without Flurry. I've also included new and old unarmed damage, and Special abilities.

<table width="90%" border="1" style="color: #FFFFCC; font: x-small"><tr><td><b>Level</b></td><td><b>Monk BAB</b></td><td><b>Monk BAB w/ Flurry of Blows</b></td><td><b>New Unarmed Damage</b></td><td><b>Old Unarmed Damage</b></td><td><b>Special</b></td></tr><tr><td>1</td><td>+0</td><td>-2/-2</td><td>1d6</td><td>1d6</td><td>Bonus Feat(Improved Grapple or Stunning Fist), Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike</td></tr><tr><td>2</td><td>+1</td><td>-1/-1</td><td>1d6</td><td>1d6</td><td>Bonus Feat(Combat Reflexes or Deflect Arrows), Evasion</td></tr><tr><td>3</td><td>+2</td><td>+0/+0</td><td>1d6</td><td>1d6</td><td>Still Mind</td></tr><tr><td>4</td><td>+3</td><td>+1/+1</td><td>1d8</td><td>1d8</td><td>Ki Strike (Magic), Slow fall 20'</td></tr><tr><td>5</td><td>+3</td><td>+2/+2</td><td>1d8</td><td>1d8</td><td>Purity of Body</td></tr><tr><td>6</td><td>+4</td><td>+3/+3</td><td>1d8</td><td>1d8</td><td>Bonus Feat(Improved Disarm or Improved Trip), Slow fall 30'</td></tr><tr><td>7</td><td>+5</td><td>+4/+4</td><td>1d8</td><td>1d8</td><td>Wholeness of Body</td></tr><tr><td>8</td><td>+6/+1</td><td>+5/+5/+0</td><td>1d10</td><td>1d10</td><td>Slow fall 40'</td></tr><tr><td>9</td><td>+6/+1</td><td>+6/+6/+1</td><td>1d10</td><td>1d10</td><td>Improved Evasion</td></tr><tr><td>10</td><td>+7/+2</td><td>+7/+7/+2</td><td>1d10</td><td>1d10</td><td>Ki Strike (Lawful), Slow fall 50'</td></tr><tr><td>11</td><td>+8/+3</td><td>+8/+8/+3/+3</td><td>1d10</td><td>1d10</td><td>Diamond Body, Greater Flurry</td></tr><tr><td>12</td><td>+9/+4</td><td>+9/+9/+4/+4</td><td>2d6</td><td>1d12</td><td>Abundant step, Slow fall 60'</td></tr><tr><td>13</td><td>+9/+4</td><td>+9/+9/+4/+4</td><td>2d6</td><td>1d12</td><td>Diamond Soul</td></tr><tr><td>14</td><td>+10/+5</td><td>+10/+10/+5/+5</td><td>2d6</td><td>1d12</td><td>Slow fall 70'</td></tr><tr><td>15</td><td>+11/+6/+1</td><td>+11/+11/+6/+6/+1</td><td>2d6</td><td>1d12</td><td>Quivering palm</td></tr><tr><td>16</td><td>+12/+7/+2</td><td>+12/+12/+7/+7/+2</td><td>2d8</td><td>1d20</td><td>Ki Strike (Adamantine), Slow fall 80'</td></tr><tr><td>17</td><td>+12/+7/+2</td><td>+12/+12/+7/+7/+2</td><td>2d8</td><td>1d20</td><td>Timeless Body, Tongue of the sun and moon</td></tr><tr><td>18</td><td>+13/+8/+3</td><td>+13/+13/+8/+8/+3</td><td>2d8</td><td>1d20</td><td>Slow fall 90'</td></tr><tr><td>19</td><td>+14/+9/+4</td><td>+14/+14/+9/+9/+3</td><td>2d8</td><td>1d20</td><td>Empty body</td></tr><tr><td>20</td><td>+15/+10/+5</td><td>+15/+15/+10/+10/+5</td><td>2d10</td><td>1d20</td><td>Slow fall any distance</td></tr></table>

edit: According to the Wizards Chat, the extra flurry attack is at -5 (which makes sense).

 

[Technik4]

BaBomb:

Nice table. He also stated that most things are in the same place as the 3.0e monk, and I think we can hazard a guess that the AC bonus won't be changed.

Technik

 

[ShadowStar]

To help you finish out the table

L1: Bonus Feat (Stunning Fist, Improved Grapple), Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike

L2: Bonus Feat (Combat Reflexes, Deflect Arrows), Evasion

L3: Still Mind

L4: Ki Strike (Magic), slow fall 20'

L5: Purity of Body

L6: Bonus Feat (Improved Disarm, Improved Trip)

L7: Wholeness of Body

L8: Slow fall 40'

L9: Improved Evasion

L10: Ki Strike (Lawful), slow fall 50'

L11: Diamond body, greater flurry

L12: Abundant step, slow fall 60'

L13: Diamond soul

L14: Slow fall 70'

L15: Quivering palm

L16: Ki strike (adamantine), slow fall 80'

L17: Timeless body, tongue of the sun and moon

L18: Slow fall 90'

L19: Empty body

L20: Perfect self, slow fall any distance.

 

[Henry]

PLEASE NOTE Shadowstar's revision to two-handed weapons. The x2 to damage ONLY applies to power attack - it doesn't apply to base damage.

 

[woodelf]

All I'm suggesting is we used the old 2nd edition method, 3.5 style. Keep the "You must choose two schools" approach. But lose the fact Divination isn't an option. That just doesn't fly with me. Besides I've had specialist wizards in my 3.0 games. So far I don't notice a difference between them in terms of spell power. (For the most part.)

2e also had specific schools in opposition, which helped cut down the munchkining.

so, updating to a "pick your schools" approach, evoker loses enchantment, and either conj or ill. It sorta works, but you may want to figure out a new "wheel" to balance things. As is, conjurers would lose divination, and either invocation or transmutation, and transmuters would lose abjuration and either conjuration or necromancy. Not sure how balanced those are.

 

[ChaosMage]

Hrm... a fighter/monk is certainly more attractive now (no one really uses the limited monk multiclassing, do they?)... as an extreme example, consider the monk 16/fighter 4, who attacks at +16/+16/+16/+11/+6/+1, doing 2d8 damage and counting as a magic, lawful, adamantium weapon, all while retaining access to weapon specialization (unarmed)... not bad

 

[Technik4]

ChaosMage:

But that monk also has given up the last 4 levels of monk: Timeless Body, Empty Body, Tongue of the Sun and the Moon, and Perfect Self. Not to mention a little more slow fall

Doesnt seem like enough for Weapon Spec (and therefore Weapon Focus) and 1 other feat, a few more hp, and martial weapon proficiency.

Technik

 

[Apok]

Is anyone else dissappointed by the apparent lack of a change to the Dodge feat? I was so hoping that the +1 v. all, +2 v. one opponent was a solid in.

On the other hand, the Bard class got some real nice revisions. Can't wait to see the revised spell list.

 

[ChaosMage]

Well, they also get a 6th attack out of it; I can see it appealing to some melee orientated monks. I do like the flavor of the high level abilities, but many of them end up having little real effect on power... few games last long enough for timeless body to come into effect, the party has means of communicating with anything it finds, and at 20th level the damage reduction from Perfect Self never makes a real difference. They do remain very tempting just for the cool factor, but having an extra attack, feat, and +1 to hit may appeal more to some (the weapon specialization just has the effect of giving the same average damage as a 20th level monk would have anyway).