[3.5] TALON: What are you guys going to do?

TalonComics

First Post
Cthulhu's Librarian said:


Just an FYI, Ingram also distributes to small, independant bookstores as well, not just the massive chains & discounters. Most independant bookstores (I'm not talking about comic & game shops) order from Ingram in some capacity, either using them for special orders or as their main source of books. Some indy booksellers have the books as well, and they were never informed of any street or on sale dates. Ingram just shipped the books to them with their regular book orders.

And that apparently is where the problem sits. WotC let it happen and is insisting distributors and retailers maintain a street date where as Ingram didn't have to.

If the Ingram issue isn't fixed, distributors are basically going to give WotC the finger and open accounts with Ingram instead. This isn't a rumor... This is what will happen.

Should it happen? No, I don't think it should but this is going to be a nasty can of worms if it isn't resolved very soon.

~D
 

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JohnNephew

First Post
Because the sales to book stores are returnable, book stores often get a lower discount than the non-returnable hobby sales. I.e., WotC makes more money per copy (but incurs the risk of returns).

Interestingly, this means that the more books sell via the book trade (say, because the books are not yet available in the hobby trade), the more cash from those sales goes into WotC's pocket, and the less returns risk they face.

I've heard that many stores with Ingram accounts ordered the books as booksellers (getting a lower discount on those copies), in order to have them on sale early. Ingram apparently made no effort to enforce or even to inform accounts of the official street date for the books.

The tragedy of all this is that a lot of stores were planning big events to coincide with the release of the new edition. Those events are now shafted, as mass market and book trade competitors have the books on sale early. There's no point in having a midnight Harry Potter party -- a week after your competitors sold the books to your customers who are the most enthusiastic fans. (And the success of the worldwide street date of the recent Harry Potter book demonstrates that the book trade and mass market CAN enforce street dates, if their feet are held to the fire.)

However it came about, this is a massive betrayal of the independent game retailer (and the game distributors as well). As a d20 publisher I am disappointed because I see retailers not making profits that they could have to reinvest in improving their stores (i.e., stocking more of my products! as well as merchandising, better fixtures, etc.). I am also concerned that retailers will be investing in more inventory than is really appropriate, given the botched release date. I hope that distributors are giving retailers a chance to reduce their orders -- and, in turn, that WotC is allowing the distributors to pare back their orders, if necessary, due to the sales that went early and unfairly through other channels.
 

KDLadage

Explorer
Olive said:


I agree, but I don't think this is a result of trying to drive FLGS's out of business.
Thus, I think this is an accidental effect of a much larger problem. I was not trying to assign motive, only display a rather straight-forward point about their motive not being the issue: the effect is the same.
 

Coik

First Post
TalonComics said:
That means I will be receiving the books, as planned, Friday morning and shipping out that same day.

Hellfire.

Ah well.

Anyone happen to know if next-day delivers on Saturdays? And do you need to sign a release?
 

Gizzard

First Post
WotC let it happen and is insisting distributors and retailers maintain a street date where as Ingram didn't have to.

Hmmm, I saw them on Tuesday at the local GameKeeper. I can't remember what GameKeeper's current distribution arrangement is, but I had thought they were somehow an arm of WotC. It would be rather naughty to slam the door in the face of your distributors while slipping the goods to your own retail outlets on the side.
 

proditor

First Post
Gamekepper is to the best of my knowledge, owned by Hasbro.

Now here's the real rub on this....

WotC stores are being told they /might/ get the 3.5 books by the 18th. The entire WotC debacle of owning retail outlets has to be the biggest comedy of errors I have ever seen. Watching them jump on to the local scene in a bright flash of optimism and then just slowly wither away to nothing has been painful but expected. The two in my area will be closing in August and September respectively.
 

Coik said:


Hellfire.

Ah well.

Anyone happen to know if next-day delivers on Saturdays? And do you need to sign a release?
Some shippers let you sign a waiver when you ship--basically, a "leave the package there without a signature and have no liability" option. You could ask about doing that, but on the one-in-a-million chance something goes wrong, you get the shaft.

I've never had a problem with it.
 

herald

First Post
Olive said:


I agree, but I don't think this is a result of trying to drive FLGS's out of business.

Take the quote in context.

"What are they trying to do, drive FLGS out of business?" is an ironic , if not sarcastic question. I don't beleave that WOTC is trying to drive FLGSs out of business, but I do beleave on this subject that they are being neglectful. They are forcing good people to obey thier rules, and they aren't doing anything about the ones that aren't.

And really there isn't much they can do about the big boy's. WOTC can't make Walmart suffer. WOTC is a small part of Hasbro, and to be honest, if they stopped shipping Walmart product, Hasbro would continue to do business with them and not bat an eye.

And to be honest, if they don't do something publicly, then they haven't done anything at all. There is no punishment if there is no shame, IMHO.

So the least they could do is allow the book flow at this point an allow the retailers that followed the rules to try and catch up with those that broke the rules. But that's just my opinion.
 

nharwell

Explorer
Oddly enough, Diamond Comics (a major distributor for FLGSs) claims that WOTC told them the street date is July 30th, so they won't release the new books until then :(
 

WizarDru

Adventurer
nharwell said:
Oddly enough, Diamond Comics (a major distributor for FLGSs) claims that WOTC told them the street date is July 30th, so they won't release the new books until then :(

Which is probably a way to encourage folks to use other outlets besides Diamond. Considering, thank to the horrific events of the early 90s, that Diamond now completely controls comic book distribution, I think that it's a Good Thing (tm).
 

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