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Message: <blockquote data-quote="dok" data-source="post: 1019384" data-attributes="member: 12780">Don't compare SR & DRYou can still hurt things with SR. In fact, if you look at the values of various monster's SR as compared with their Challenge rating, you'll see an interesting relationship...First, since you insist on comparing apples to oranges, lets' look at monster DR & CR. Low CR monsters are suggested to have DR x/5, High CR monsters are suggested to have DR x/15, and anything between probably gets x/10. Now, with regards to SR, the 'standard' is usually CR + 10. For rare monsters that are supposed to be "highly resistant" to magic (like the Juggernaught or the Mind Flayer), their SR may be closer to CR +15. For monsters with "minor resistance", their SR may be closer to CR + 5.  But overwhelmingly, SR is set around CR +10. Which means that the average monster with SR will ignore half the spells cast by the primary spellcasters. "Unfair!" you say, "Casters can only cast one spell a round in 3.5!"Except that higher levels spells are meant to be the equivalent of multiple attacks for fighters. Around the time the fighter gets his second iterative attack, the wizard gets Fireball, which is a major increase in power. Around the time the fighter picks up his third attack, the wizard has Cone of Cold. A fighter gets his fourth attack around the time of Horrid Wilting. Unless the DR is -/x. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue    :P"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" />There is a way around SR: use the right spell. Not all spells allow for SR. Each spell says whether it does or not.And even for spells that do allow SR, there's a way to beat it: roll high enough. As stated earlier, most SR is CR +10, which is around 50/50 chance for a primary spellcaster. The only folks really hurt by most SR are secondary spellcasters: Paladins & Rangers.Here again, your analogy breaks down. SR isn't like DR; it's like a miss chance that the character can actually effect. If you want to compare DR to something, compare it to energy resistances, which are also a fixed amount, and in 3.5 work exactly the same on a per-attack basis.Again, your comparison is flawed. Physical attacks don't have saving throws because you roll an attack versus an AC. The 'saving throw<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />C' mechanic is identical to the 'attack:AC' mechanic, with the role of who rolls the die reversed. And creatures don't get saving throws against some spells. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> Here again, it's a bad comparison, because you're leaving out some key points. A monster who is 'just hurt' because of DR will drain more party resources than the same monster without DR. How? By living longer, thus making more attacks & dealing more damage. A character can make any number of physical attacks, but he can't take an endless amount of attacks. Spells are a finite resource; so are hit points. I mentioned it earlier, but I'll revisit it again. A wizard casting higher level spells is the same as a fighter getting multiple attacks. The jump in power between 1st/2nd level spells & 3rd is not an accident. Same for what happens with 5th & 7th level spells compared to those one level lower. A fighter taking three attacks versus a monster with DR will deal less damage with each hit, and thus the monster will live to deal more damage on the following round.A wizard casting against a monster with SR will fail anywhere from 25% to 75% of the time, but assuming he's using strong spells, he will do tremendous damage.At higher levels, SR becomes much more common. Which means that feats that beat SR become more useful.There are no feats 'which assist in overcoming DR' except for the ones that deal more damage. And until the 3.5 Power Attack fix appeared, Power Attack was a bad, bad choice for most combats. Fighters get lots of feats. OK. Wizards get four bonus feats. So we're down to Sorcerers (who have more spells, which translates into more "resources", so a 50% failure rate hurts them less), Clerics (who have a healthy selection of buffing/support spells for themselves & their party members to make them effective combatants, along with an Average BAB, heavy armor & two good saving throws) and Bards. (who will probably always suck, no matter what the situation)Nope. SR is just fine. If you want to compare DR to something, compare it to Energy Resistances. If you really want to compare SR to something, compare it to a miss chance like Incorporeal or Displacement. "Hey, Incorporeal is broken & unfair to fighters. It's a 50% miss chance even with a magic weapon. And the only way to negate that is with a weapon enhancement that only works for Incorporeal creatures. And the way magic weapons are priced, that throwaway, limited-use +1 effect is waay too costly at higher levels.""Hey, miss chances from concealment are unfair to fighters. A wizard can fire area effect spells, but a fighter has to target his foes and have a chance of missing, no matter what level they are. And there's only one feat to help it: Blind Fighting. And that only helps in a very specalized situation. It needs to be fixed!"< /sarcasm ></blockquote>

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