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[3.5] They didn't fix SR
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<blockquote data-quote="Sinjin the Rogue" data-source="post: 1020066" data-attributes="member: 2288"><p><strong>SR</strong></p><p></p><p>"The spellcaster has plenty of control over his affect on a creature's SR....he takes a specific feat, casts a spell that is unaffected by SR or chooses a higher level spell."</p><p></p><p>Discounting non-core material, there are two feats that will allow a caster to increase the possibility of defeating SR: Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration. The most a caster can hope to improve his/her chance is +4, by taking both feats. At high level (16-20) a caster can expect to face enemies with SR in the lo to mid 30's. A 16th level caster, with both feats, against a creature with a 33 SR has a 60 percent chance of failing. Without one feat, the chance of failure is 70 percent and without both feats, the chance of failure is 80 percent. You may argue that many creatures with SR will be in the SR 25 range, but a funny little thing about published adventures, which most DM's use, is that just when a caster gets to a level where he/she can start affecting creatures with SR's in the mid 20's, the creatures in the modules rise to 30-35. A 60-80 percent chance of failure does not give a caster a lot of control. Even if the spell gets off, most spells allow for a saving throw which negate or significantly reduce the spell effect. </p><p></p><p>I've seen a few people recommend that spells that don't allow for SR be used. There really aren't a whole lot of options. Dispel magic, greater dispelling and maze are about it. Maze just gives the group some time to heal or buff or escape, before the enemy returns. (It is a great spell though) </p><p></p><p>Choosing a higher spell level has absolutely no affect on SR. Defeating SR is based on the caster's level. Whether a caster casts a first level sleep spell or a 9th level meteor swarm makes no difference. </p><p></p><p>The designers of 3.0 and 3.5 compare SR to AC. If that's true, why doesn't a caster's primary ability bonus affect his/her ability to defeat SR? </p><p></p><p>If you take a 15th level fighter, with a 20 strength and a couple of fighter feats and a +3 weapon, the BAB for the fighter is at least 24/19/14, if not higher. Against an AC of 25, the fighter will hit 95%/75%/45%. And if he/she misses, the fighter doesn't lose his/her weapon.</p><p></p><p>A 15th level caster against a creature with an SR of 25 has a 50% chance of landing a spell, unless he/she has spell penetration, which giver him/her a 60% chance of success, and greater spell penetration gives him/her a 70% chance of success. Note, unless the particular spell is quickened, the caster gets only one spell per round, as opposed to the fighter's 3 attacks per round. If the spell succeeds, the saving throw might negate the effect, or reduce the effects by half. If the caster misses the SR roll, the spell is lost, unlike the fighter's weapon.</p><p></p><p>A nice fix to the SR system would be to allow a caster to add his/her primary ability bonus to the SR roll.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sinjin the Rogue, post: 1020066, member: 2288"] [b]SR[/b] "The spellcaster has plenty of control over his affect on a creature's SR....he takes a specific feat, casts a spell that is unaffected by SR or chooses a higher level spell." Discounting non-core material, there are two feats that will allow a caster to increase the possibility of defeating SR: Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration. The most a caster can hope to improve his/her chance is +4, by taking both feats. At high level (16-20) a caster can expect to face enemies with SR in the lo to mid 30's. A 16th level caster, with both feats, against a creature with a 33 SR has a 60 percent chance of failing. Without one feat, the chance of failure is 70 percent and without both feats, the chance of failure is 80 percent. You may argue that many creatures with SR will be in the SR 25 range, but a funny little thing about published adventures, which most DM's use, is that just when a caster gets to a level where he/she can start affecting creatures with SR's in the mid 20's, the creatures in the modules rise to 30-35. A 60-80 percent chance of failure does not give a caster a lot of control. Even if the spell gets off, most spells allow for a saving throw which negate or significantly reduce the spell effect. I've seen a few people recommend that spells that don't allow for SR be used. There really aren't a whole lot of options. Dispel magic, greater dispelling and maze are about it. Maze just gives the group some time to heal or buff or escape, before the enemy returns. (It is a great spell though) Choosing a higher spell level has absolutely no affect on SR. Defeating SR is based on the caster's level. Whether a caster casts a first level sleep spell or a 9th level meteor swarm makes no difference. The designers of 3.0 and 3.5 compare SR to AC. If that's true, why doesn't a caster's primary ability bonus affect his/her ability to defeat SR? If you take a 15th level fighter, with a 20 strength and a couple of fighter feats and a +3 weapon, the BAB for the fighter is at least 24/19/14, if not higher. Against an AC of 25, the fighter will hit 95%/75%/45%. And if he/she misses, the fighter doesn't lose his/her weapon. A 15th level caster against a creature with an SR of 25 has a 50% chance of landing a spell, unless he/she has spell penetration, which giver him/her a 60% chance of success, and greater spell penetration gives him/her a 70% chance of success. Note, unless the particular spell is quickened, the caster gets only one spell per round, as opposed to the fighter's 3 attacks per round. If the spell succeeds, the saving throw might negate the effect, or reduce the effects by half. If the caster misses the SR roll, the spell is lost, unlike the fighter's weapon. A nice fix to the SR system would be to allow a caster to add his/her primary ability bonus to the SR roll. [/QUOTE]
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[3.5] They didn't fix SR
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