Olgar Shiverstone
Legend
Read it and weep ...
Wise change, if you ask me.
Wise change, if you ask me.
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D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Threat ranges no longer stack!
- Thread starter Olgar Shiverstone
- Start date
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Hmm.
Wonder what the Weapon Master will do...?
-Hyp.
Wonder what the Weapon Master will do...?
-Hyp.
Pbartender
First Post
I think that perhaps it would have been better to "name" the effects that expand threat ranges...
"Keen", or "competence" for example. Then some would stack, and some wouldn't.
Some stackng of those effects doesn't bother me, for some, it was getting a little out of hand.
"Keen", or "competence" for example. Then some would stack, and some wouldn't.
Some stackng of those effects doesn't bother me, for some, it was getting a little out of hand.
FreeTheSlaves
Adventurer
They will have changed either the improved critical feat or the keen ability.
Making keen more expensive would make it less viable vs elemental damage effects. The feat is expensive compared to keen and so the requirements may be lower.
Making keen more expensive would make it less viable vs elemental damage effects. The feat is expensive compared to keen and so the requirements may be lower.
0-hr
Starship Cartographer
What I would rather see is multipliers to damage no longer stacking. That would prevent the crit on top of spirited charge on top of Rhino Hide on top of shield charge etc etc
Or at least name the multipliers (crit, charge, skill, etc.)
I don't mind someone crit'ing on a 12+ if they have worked hard to get that, and it is the only multiplier they have. It's when that common crit is combined with a bunch of other easy multipliers that things get out of hand.
Or at least name the multipliers (crit, charge, skill, etc.)
I don't mind someone crit'ing on a 12+ if they have worked hard to get that, and it is the only multiplier they have. It's when that common crit is combined with a bunch of other easy multipliers that things get out of hand.
Zhure
First Post
I know this is the rules forum and not the opinion's forum, but my gut reaction is "the only special thing about that ruling is..." nevermind, it's not pretty.
Ok, let's assume all categories of weapons are basically equal, so generic Fighter A pics martial weapon A because he likes the concept, not because it's I33+. A rapier is 1d6, 18-20/x2 which is pretty close to a longsword at 1d8, 19-20/x2, and so forth. Simple weapons tend to be a wee bit less viable, and exotic weapons tend to be a wee bit more powerful.
So if all weapons are basically equal, then all critical improvements are basically equal. Changing an 18-20/2 to a 15-20/x2 is about the same as a 19-20/x2 becoming a 17-20/x2, since their base damages are different. And furthermore, increasing an 18-20/x2 to a 15-20/x2 is also the same jump blah blah blah.
According to Andy's statement, he's tired of the 12-20 crit ranges. That's really only feasible for an 18-20 weapon, Keened, with improved critical. By the base rules, we're only talking about a guy wielding a kukri, scimitar, falchion or rapier, who has a +8 or better BAB and spent a feat and either uses a Keen spell, the keen weapon enhancement or a scabbard of keenness. That's pretty rare. (Two PrC's that I can think of add crit ranges, so that's even more rare and they're not core rules anyway.)
Is this such a problem? These PCs are already paying a lot of opportunity costs to do marginally more damage. Now they'll take that feat and plow it into specialization, or power attack, or weapon focus, and the saved loot cost for the magic item and invest it in a higher bonus to hit and damage. Wowzers, nothing's changed except a flavorful mechanic.
This so far has won the "dumbest rules change for 3.5 award" for me (barely eking out the "two-handed power attack is I33+" rule).
Greg
Ok, let's assume all categories of weapons are basically equal, so generic Fighter A pics martial weapon A because he likes the concept, not because it's I33+. A rapier is 1d6, 18-20/x2 which is pretty close to a longsword at 1d8, 19-20/x2, and so forth. Simple weapons tend to be a wee bit less viable, and exotic weapons tend to be a wee bit more powerful.
So if all weapons are basically equal, then all critical improvements are basically equal. Changing an 18-20/2 to a 15-20/x2 is about the same as a 19-20/x2 becoming a 17-20/x2, since their base damages are different. And furthermore, increasing an 18-20/x2 to a 15-20/x2 is also the same jump blah blah blah.
According to Andy's statement, he's tired of the 12-20 crit ranges. That's really only feasible for an 18-20 weapon, Keened, with improved critical. By the base rules, we're only talking about a guy wielding a kukri, scimitar, falchion or rapier, who has a +8 or better BAB and spent a feat and either uses a Keen spell, the keen weapon enhancement or a scabbard of keenness. That's pretty rare. (Two PrC's that I can think of add crit ranges, so that's even more rare and they're not core rules anyway.)
Is this such a problem? These PCs are already paying a lot of opportunity costs to do marginally more damage. Now they'll take that feat and plow it into specialization, or power attack, or weapon focus, and the saved loot cost for the magic item and invest it in a higher bonus to hit and damage. Wowzers, nothing's changed except a flavorful mechanic.
This so far has won the "dumbest rules change for 3.5 award" for me (barely eking out the "two-handed power attack is I33+" rule).
Greg
drnuncheon
Explorer
FreeTheSlaves said:
Keen should definitely not be any more than a +1, because in all of the cases I've looked at (rapier, falchion, scythe, heavy pick) it actually does less for the average damage than adding a +1 does.
J
