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D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
[3.5] Threat ranges no longer stack!
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<blockquote data-quote="rushlight" data-source="post: 968700" data-attributes="member: 3801"><p>First, there are a few things I don't think people are considering. IMC, I have a player who plays the standard "Fighter/Wpn Master" (18th lvl) for the crits. His weapon is a +1 Flaming, shocking burst holy Greatsword. When he is fully buffed (by the cleric and mage) he almost always crits. And players don't usually go into battle without being fully buffed. He has an average of +38 to hit and damage, and when he crits he does something like 10d6+56+3d10 damage. (That may not be precice, but it's within a few points... I'm at work.) During our last game, he did 110 points of damage to a CR 18 black dragon. Which has an average of 350 hps. He did that with A SINGLE HIT. If he'd had his haste activated, and made a full round attack, he would have had a fair chance to have killed it. By himself. That's screwed, and SHOULD be fixed. </p><p></p><p>A mage casting a non-instant death spell (which probably won't exist anyway) can only hope to do around 144 points of damage in a round (say from a meteor swarm through a greater maximization rod). The fighter in my group (under haste, and fighting an evil creature that can be critted) can almost always get 3 crits a round, with a small chance for one, and a small chance to do regular damage. That's over 300 points of damage.</p><p></p><p>Under 3.5 a mage cannot HOPE to do 300 HPs of damage in a single round. If you drop the fighter's threat range, then things get a bit better... </p><p></p><p>As an aside, I think it's a bit cheap to avoid using creatures that can be critted just to keep the fighter from killing it in the first round. Players should be able to use their abilities, but their abilities should also be balanced. Sure I can house-rule the crit thing and make them not stack, but when a mechanic is broken, it should be fixed, not leave it to the DMs to go annoying players by changing their abilities. That's what designers are paid for. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> If you want your fighters to do 300 or more points of damage at a time, then YOU house-rule that, and you'll make happy players. The rest of us can follow the rules for a more balanced play.</p><p></p><p>And finally, how can you question Andy on his design decisions? Isn't that THE FUNCTION of the designer - to decide what they like and write a game they think works and is fun? ALL of them use mechanics and design rules and logic that they feel is right - regardless of it's internal logic. There aren't any democratic games where all the rules were proposed to the public for a final vote (Fox's American RPG, anyone?). Designers design what they like, and players buy what they like. And if the two coincide, then you've got a selling game. If they don't then the game flops. If you feel you can do better, then you design a game that YOU like, and publish it, and let others decide if they like what you like. Who knows, you could be the one to create the next revolution in RPGs, and get rich and famous in the process (or as rich and famous as any of the other designers!)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="rushlight, post: 968700, member: 3801"] First, there are a few things I don't think people are considering. IMC, I have a player who plays the standard "Fighter/Wpn Master" (18th lvl) for the crits. His weapon is a +1 Flaming, shocking burst holy Greatsword. When he is fully buffed (by the cleric and mage) he almost always crits. And players don't usually go into battle without being fully buffed. He has an average of +38 to hit and damage, and when he crits he does something like 10d6+56+3d10 damage. (That may not be precice, but it's within a few points... I'm at work.) During our last game, he did 110 points of damage to a CR 18 black dragon. Which has an average of 350 hps. He did that with A SINGLE HIT. If he'd had his haste activated, and made a full round attack, he would have had a fair chance to have killed it. By himself. That's screwed, and SHOULD be fixed. A mage casting a non-instant death spell (which probably won't exist anyway) can only hope to do around 144 points of damage in a round (say from a meteor swarm through a greater maximization rod). The fighter in my group (under haste, and fighting an evil creature that can be critted) can almost always get 3 crits a round, with a small chance for one, and a small chance to do regular damage. That's over 300 points of damage. Under 3.5 a mage cannot HOPE to do 300 HPs of damage in a single round. If you drop the fighter's threat range, then things get a bit better... As an aside, I think it's a bit cheap to avoid using creatures that can be critted just to keep the fighter from killing it in the first round. Players should be able to use their abilities, but their abilities should also be balanced. Sure I can house-rule the crit thing and make them not stack, but when a mechanic is broken, it should be fixed, not leave it to the DMs to go annoying players by changing their abilities. That's what designers are paid for. :) If you want your fighters to do 300 or more points of damage at a time, then YOU house-rule that, and you'll make happy players. The rest of us can follow the rules for a more balanced play. And finally, how can you question Andy on his design decisions? Isn't that THE FUNCTION of the designer - to decide what they like and write a game they think works and is fun? ALL of them use mechanics and design rules and logic that they feel is right - regardless of it's internal logic. There aren't any democratic games where all the rules were proposed to the public for a final vote (Fox's American RPG, anyone?). Designers design what they like, and players buy what they like. And if the two coincide, then you've got a selling game. If they don't then the game flops. If you feel you can do better, then you design a game that YOU like, and publish it, and let others decide if they like what you like. Who knows, you could be the one to create the next revolution in RPGs, and get rich and famous in the process (or as rich and famous as any of the other designers!) [/QUOTE]
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[3.5] Threat ranges no longer stack!
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